Hans-Werner, I'm pleased to see you still tell it like it is. :-) Hope all is well with you and your family. Eric
Well I am pleased to see this from Hans Werner too -- especiAlly the lines of historical authority ..... he said: formally I guess one would claim that the Internet address space is the personal property of the IANA instrument of the United States Department of Defense, if that is what you like. I would prefer to think that the Internet evolved so much over the last ten years or so into the public realm, that the address and naming spaces have become public property. Instead of bitching about the InterNIC, NSF, ARPA, IANA, whoever, you guys should thank them for how far they got things driven, and whet they fostered and allowed to transition to the international private sector. [end of Hans Werner quote] Cook speaking: Are we hearing then that **ARPA has given up any and all of its authority over IANA**? That DOD no longer claims to own IP numbers? Hans Werner, I'd prefer for you to be precisely correct in your assertion about the public property nature of IANA, IP numbers etc. I'd love to thank Arpa for giving freedom to IANA and DOD for doing the same to IP numbers. But I have not seen any evidence that they have indeed done this. If they have perhaps the relevant people at ARPA and DOD would come out and confirm just exactly what they consider their current authority over IANA and IP numbers to be? ******************************************************************** Gordon Cook, Editor & Publisher Subscript.: Individ-ascii $85 The COOK Report on Internet Non Profit. $150 431 Greenway Ave, Ewing, NJ 08618 Small Corp & Gov't $200 (609) 882-2572 Corporate $350 Internet: cook@cookreport.com Corporate. Site Lic $650 http://www.netaxs.com/~cook <- Subscription Info & COOK Report Index ******************************************************************** On Fri, 22 Sep 1995 Eric.M.Aupperle@um.cc.umich.edu wrote:
Hans-Werner, I'm pleased to see you still tell it like it is. :-) Hope all is well with you and your family. Eric
Are we hearing then that **ARPA has given up any and all of its authority over IANA**? That DOD no longer claims to own IP numbers? Hans Werner, I'd prefer for you to be precisely correct in your assertion about the public property nature of IANA, IP numbers etc. I'd love to thank Arpa for giving freedom to IANA and DOD for doing the same to IP numbers. But I have not seen any evidence that they have indeed done this. If they have perhaps the relevant people at ARPA and DOD would come out and confirm just exactly what they consider their current authority over IANA and IP numbers to be?
Gordon: Ahem, while yours is a reasonable response (and I would not mind at all seeing an answer to your questions), I don't think I said what you think I was saying. I said "formally ... personal property of the IANA ..." ... "fostered and allowed to transition to the international private sector." The process has more or less transitioned, with close to all of the actual decisions not being made by the US DoD or the IANA, and most certainly not in isolation. For that matter, I remember many years ago the IANA having actually *asked* for guidance from more sectors of the community, so the right things would happen. In that sense the community (we all, myself included) screwed up by not working more *with* the IANA). They are not evil, neither is the InterNIC. I suppose that the Internet at large has alot of leverage with the Internet. If all its clients in the world would get together and agree to "roll their own," perhaps starting with the old IP addresses, what leverage would ARPA have? I guess it would be pretty close to zero. Just nobody has the guts or stamina to pull that off, especially since it would be an organizational nightmare. All this stuff is more work than it seems from the outside. All it takes is to get everyone to agree to hijack the address space. Start at the IEPG, may be, then work downwards from there. With lots of antacid handy you may even make it. We don't even have systemic Internet management, and until someone or some organization pulls such a thing off, may be we should be happy that things are as organized as they are, and move on from here, and focus on requirements, rather than perceptions. Hans-Werner
I'm puzzled why anyone would think that, these days, IANA is under US DoD authority. If IANA were under any US Goverment authority, it would be NSF. But IANA is appointed by the IAB which is not under US gov authority except to the extent that it has ties to ISOC and ISOC is incorporated in the US. Like most "authority" in the Internet, IANA controls the IP address space because it is to everyone's advantage to cooperate. Anyone can get up a machine and use any IP address they want, they will just have a lot of trouble talking to anyone else if they don't coordinate with IANA (or actually the registries to whom IANA has delegated almost all the day to day coordination activities). Donald On Fri, 22 Sep 1995, Gordon Cook wrote:
Well I am pleased to see this from Hans Werner too -- especiAlly the lines of historical authority .....
he said:
formally I guess one would claim that the Internet address space is the personal property of the IANA instrument of the United States Department of Defense, if that is what you like. I would prefer to think that the Internet evolved so much over the last ten years or so into the public realm, that the address and naming spaces have become public property. Instead of bitching about the InterNIC, NSF, ARPA, IANA, whoever, you guys should thank them for how far they got things driven, and whet they fostered and allowed to transition to the international private sector. [end of Hans Werner quote]
Cook speaking:
Are we hearing then that **ARPA has given up any and all of its authority over IANA**? That DOD no longer claims to own IP numbers? Hans Werner, I'd prefer for you to be precisely correct in your assertion about the public property nature of IANA, IP numbers etc. I'd love to thank Arpa for giving freedom to IANA and DOD for doing the same to IP numbers. But I have not seen any evidence that they have indeed done this. If they have perhaps the relevant people at ARPA and DOD would come out and confirm just exactly what they consider their current authority over IANA and IP numbers to be?
******************************************************************** Gordon Cook, Editor & Publisher Subscript.: Individ-ascii $85 The COOK Report on Internet Non Profit. $150 431 Greenway Ave, Ewing, NJ 08618 Small Corp & Gov't $200 (609) 882-2572 Corporate $350 Internet: cook@cookreport.com Corporate. Site Lic $650 http://www.netaxs.com/~cook <- Subscription Info & COOK Report Index ********************************************************************
On Fri, 22 Sep 1995 Eric.M.Aupperle@um.cc.umich.edu wrote:
Hans-Werner, I'm pleased to see you still tell it like it is. :-) Hope all is well with you and your family. Eric
===================================================================== Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1 508-287-4877(tel) dee@cybercash.com 318 Acton Street +1 508-371-7148(fax) dee@world.std.com Carlisle, MA 01741 USA +1 703-620-4200(main office, Reston, VA)
I'm puzzled why anyone would think that, these days, IANA is under US DoD authority. If IANA were under any US Goverment authority, it would be NSF. But IANA is appointed by the IAB which is not under US gov authority except to the extent that it has ties to ISOC and ISOC is incorporated in the US.
Like most "authority" in the Internet, IANA controls the IP address space because it is to everyone's advantage to cooperate. Anyone can get up a machine and use any IP address they want, they will just have a lot of trouble talking to anyone else if they don't coordinate with IANA (or actually the registries to whom IANA has delegated almost all the day to day coordination activities).
Hell, I kinda appreciated the hijack discussion myself. :-) - paul
Donald says: I'm puzzled why anyone would think that, these days, IANA is under US DoD authority. If IANA were under any US Goverment authority, it would be NSF. Sorry to disagree with you Donald but i have been quite explicitly told that if IANA is under the authority of anyone it is under the authority of NOT DoD NOR NSF but rather the **Advanced Research Projects Agency** (ARPA). Now if the director of ARPA steps forward, or any other ARPA official comes forward and says no ARPA claims no authority over IANA then we'll all be enlightened. ******************************************************************** Gordon Cook, Editor & Publisher Subscript.: Individ-ascii $85 The COOK Report on Internet Non Profit. $150 431 Greenway Ave, Ewing, NJ 08618 Small Corp & Gov't $200 (609) 882-2572 Corporate $350 Internet: cook@cookreport.com Corporate. Site Lic $650 http://www.netaxs.com/~cook <- Subscription Info & COOK Report Index ********************************************************************
Sorry to disagree with you Donald but i have been quite explicitly told that if IANA is under the authority of anyone it is under the authority of NOT DoD NOR NSF but rather the **Advanced Research Projects Agency**
I assume by some approximation ARPA is to DoD what NCRI is to NSF. Part of a specific agency. NCRI is home of the NSFNET program. ARPA is not an independent agency. TCP/IP came clearly out of ARPA, though.
Opps........ I had not seen Mike St Johns note when I sent my first reply to this or I would have refrained. Thanks Mike. My apologies for adding to list traffic. ******************************************************************** Gordon Cook, Editor & Publisher Subscript.: Individ-ascii $85 The COOK Report on Internet Non Profit. $150 431 Greenway Ave, Ewing, NJ 08618 Small Corp & Gov't $200 (609) 882-2572 Corporate $350 Internet: cook@cookreport.com Corporate. Site Lic $650 http://www.netaxs.com/~cook <- Subscription Info & COOK Report Index ********************************************************************
participants (5)
-
Donald E. Eastlake 3rd -
Eric.M.Aupperle＠um.cc.umich.edu -
Gordon Cook -
hwb＠upeksa.sdsc.edu -
paul＠hawksbill.sprintmrn.com