ARIN's external services will be unavailable due to routine maintenance on Sunday April 19, 1998 from 12 noon through 4pm US/EDT. This means there will be no access to ftp.arin.net www.arin.net whois.arin.net during this time frame. All services will be restored as early as possible. Questions or concerns should be addressed to <noc@arin.net>. -Anne Louise Gockel ARIN Technical Support -- Anne Louise Gockel American Registry for Internet Numbers Internet: agockel@aol.net
So are we to now assume that whois is no longer a critical resource? Here's hoping that there aren't any network problems during those 4 hours where we actually need to be able to track the problem back to its original source. I'd really like to know why this is occuring, why there isn't going to be an offiste backup in place since this is a planned outage, or better yet, why there isn't a permanent offsite backup facility. Justin "Just a paying member" Newton At 01:39 PM 4/15/98 -0400, Kim Hubbard wrote:
ARIN's external services will be unavailable due to routine maintenance on Sunday April 19, 1998 from 12 noon through 4pm US/EDT. This means there will be no access to ftp.arin.net www.arin.net whois.arin.net during this time frame. All services will be restored as early as possible. Questions or concerns should be addressed to <noc@arin.net>.
-Anne Louise Gockel ARIN Technical Support -- Anne Louise Gockel American Registry for Internet Numbers Internet: agockel@aol.net
Justin W. Newton
I would think at the very least, this 4 hours could be over night rather than the middle of the day. Brian On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, Justin W. Newton wrote:
So are we to now assume that whois is no longer a critical resource? Here's hoping that there aren't any network problems during those 4 hours where we actually need to be able to track the problem back to its original source.
I'd really like to know why this is occuring, why there isn't going to be an offiste backup in place since this is a planned outage, or better yet, why there isn't a permanent offsite backup facility.
Justin "Just a paying member" Newton
At 01:39 PM 4/15/98 -0400, Kim Hubbard wrote:
ARIN's external services will be unavailable due to routine maintenance on Sunday April 19, 1998 from 12 noon through 4pm US/EDT. This means there will be no access to ftp.arin.net www.arin.net whois.arin.net during this time frame. All services will be restored as early as possible. Questions or concerns should be addressed to <noc@arin.net>.
-Anne Louise Gockel ARIN Technical Support -- Anne Louise Gockel American Registry for Internet Numbers Internet: agockel@aol.net
Justin W. Newton
Brian Horvitz sez:
I would think at the very least, this 4 hours could be over night rather than the middle of the day.
"It's always September somewhere......" -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, David Lesher wrote:
Brian Horvitz sez:
I would think at the very least, this 4 hours could be over night rather than the middle of the day.
"It's always September somewhere......"
While that is true, ARIN is the "AMERICAN Registry of Internet Numbers", and should therefore attempt to minimize the inconvenience of the vast majority of it's members. (Yes, I understand ARIN is responsible for South America and Africa, probably also Antarctica; the vast majority of ARIN members are within 4 time zones.) I would love to be able to do major maintenence during the day, my paying customers would be justifiably furious. As a member (paying customer) or ARIN, this is unacceptable, and I hope someone operationally at ARIN gets half a clue. Jeremiah Kristal Senior Network Engineer ICon CMT Corporation jeremiah@iconnet.net 201-319-5764 x284 internal
People in the Americas seem to be less important to the American Registry for Internet Numbers than our counter parts in China. jlw On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, David Lesher wrote:
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:19:30 -0400 (EDT) From: David Lesher <wb8foz@nrk.com> To: nanog list <nanog@merit.edu> Subject: Re: ARIN Services
Brian Horvitz sez:
I would think at the very least, this 4 hours could be over night rather than the middle of the day.
"It's always September somewhere......"
-- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
-- Jason Weisberger Chief of Network Operations SoftAware, Inc. - 310/305-0275 "You may be whatever you resolve to be." -Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
Are you inferring that Kim is a Chinese mafia runner? Jason L. Weisberger wrote:
People in the Americas seem to be less important to the American Registry for Internet Numbers than our counter parts in China.
jlw
-- Jason Weisberger Chief of Network Operations SoftAware, Inc. - 310/305-0275
"You may be whatever you resolve to be." -Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
-jamie /And no, I don't know how you configure your router for this. -- jamie rishaw (dal/efnet:gavroche) American Information Systems, Inc. rdm: "Religion is obsolete." gsr: "By what?" jgr: "Solaris." (1996) Tel:312.425.7140, FAX:312.425.7240
From: jamie@dilbert.ais.net (James Rishaw) Are you inferring that Kim is a Chinese mafia runner? He is insinuating. You are inferring. :-P ---rob
From: jamie@dilbert.ais.net (James Rishaw)
Are you inferring that Kim is a Chinese mafia runner?
He is insinuating. You are inferring.
I know far better than to meddle with the Chinese Mafia's network operations. I seem to recall the tale of a young engineer, a /17 and several broken bones. jlw -- Jason Weisberger Chief of Network Operations SoftAware, Inc. - 310/305-0275 "You may be whatever you resolve to be." -Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
David Lesher wrote:
Brian Horvitz sez:
I would think at the very least, this 4 hours could be over night rather than the middle of the day.
"It's always September somewhere......"
Yes, but ARIN = AMERICAN registry. Not Australian. They are affecting their base: North America. -- jamie rishaw (dal/efnet:gavroche) American Information Systems, Inc. rdm: "Religion is obsolete." gsr: "By what?" jgr: "Solaris." (1996) Tel:312.425.7140, FAX:312.425.7240
On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, David Lesher wrote:
Brian Horvitz sez:
I would think at the very least, this 4 hours could be over night rather than the middle of the day.
"It's always September somewhere......"
Yes, but since ARIN is the American Registry (the AR in ARIN), you can probably do a pretty good job at guessing when the majority of the users of the service will not be awake. I'd imagine afternoons in whatever timezone ARIN is in isn't likely to be the best choice for off-peak downtime. - Forrest W. Christian (forrestc@imach.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- iMach, Ltd., P.O. Box 5749, Helena, MT 59604 http://www.imach.com Solutions for your high-tech problems. (406)-442-6648 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Forrest W. Christian wrote:
"It's always September somewhere......"
Yes, but since ARIN is the American Registry (the AR in ARIN), you can probably do a pretty good job at guessing when the majority of the users of the service will not be awake.
I suppose that network problems never happen in the People's Republic of China? And the Chinese network operators never need to consult whois.arin.net to find contact info for the idiot North American network operator who's asleep at the wheel with directed broadcast turned on? Of course not, we all know that the Internet ends at the edges of North America, don't we? -- Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com
At 11:44 AM 4/16/98 -0700, Michael Dillon wrote:
On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Forrest W. Christian wrote:
"It's always September somewhere......"
Yes, but since ARIN is the American Registry (the AR in ARIN), you can probably do a pretty good job at guessing when the majority of the users of the service will not be awake.
I suppose that network problems never happen in the People's Republic of China? And the Chinese network operators never need to consult whois.arin.net to find contact info for the idiot North American network operator who's asleep at the wheel with directed broadcast turned on?
Of course not, we all know that the Internet ends at the edges of North America, don't we?
Not at all, but we are the ones paying the bill for this service. If APNIC goes down during "normal" hours for us, we would have less ability to affect change than if the people /we are paying for service/ do. That being said, the horse is dead, they aren't going down (woohoo!), but I believe that there should still be a discussion about off site backup, although that should probably occur on arin-members. Justin W. Newton
On 16 Apr 1998 14:55:24 -0400, Michael Dillon <michael@memra.com> wrote: |I suppose that network problems never happen in the People's Republic of |China? And the Chinese network operators never need to consult |whois.arin.net to find contact info for the idiot North American network |operator who's asleep at the wheel with directed broadcast turned on? | |Of course not, we all know that the Internet ends at the edges of North |America, don't we? Then you'd rather ARIN do maintainance in the middle of the afternoon EST? I'd be surprised if the whois traffic at ARIN isn't almost entirely North American users. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The internet, of course, is more than a place to find pictures of people having sex with dogs" -- Philip Elmer Dewitt, Time Magazine, July 3, 1995 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- blahblahblah@oneill.net coneill@erols.com
On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Michael Dillon wrote:
I suppose that network problems never happen in the People's Republic of China? And the Chinese network operators never need to consult whois.arin.net to find contact info for the idiot North American network operator who's asleep at the wheel with directed broadcast turned on?
The point I was trying to make was that if you HAVE to take something down at ARIN, daylight hours for the americas is probably NOT the best time to do it: On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Forrest W. Christian wrote:
Yes, but since ARIN is the American Registry (the AR in ARIN), you can probably do a pretty good job at guessing when the majority of the users of the service will not be awake. ^^^^^^^^^^
Now, I fully agree that the BEST solution to the problem is for it to be available 24x7, as there are those of us which work from midnight-4 on a regular basis. (I myself have two waking schedules 9a - midnight or noon-4a, depending on what needs to get done.) - Forrest W. Christian (forrestc@imach.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- iMach, Ltd., P.O. Box 5749, Helena, MT 59604 http://www.imach.com Solutions for your high-tech problems. (406)-442-6648 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Forrest W. Christian wrote:
Now, I fully agree that the BEST solution to the problem is for it to be available 24x7, as there are those of us which work from midnight-4 on a regular basis. (I myself have two waking schedules 9a - midnight or noon-4a, depending on what needs to get done.)
One would think the various registries might make a deal to host "mirror" sites for each other and then spread the word that if for instance, rs.arin.net isn't working, you should try rs2.arin.net (which might reside somewhere in Europe). People in Europe, might naturally just use rs2.arin.net, knowing that its closer and faster for them. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jon Lewis <jlewis@fdt.net> | This space for rent. Enquire Network Administrator | at left. Florida Digital Turnpike | :) ______http://inorganic5.fdt.net/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key____
On Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 12:46:39AM -0400, Jon Lewis wrote:
On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Forrest W. Christian wrote:
Now, I fully agree that the BEST solution to the problem is for it to be available 24x7, as there are those of us which work from midnight-4 on a regular basis. (I myself have two waking schedules 9a - midnight or noon-4a, depending on what needs to get done.)
One would think the various registries might make a deal to host "mirror" sites for each other and then spread the word that if for instance, rs.arin.net isn't working, you should try rs2.arin.net (which might reside somewhere in Europe). People in Europe, might naturally just use rs2.arin.net, knowing that its closer and faster for them.
Why even use a different name? Round robin works fine, and if all the registries participate in a cross-mirroring program, then all would be well, no? If you mirror correctly, it doesn't much matter _which_ host you hit. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Unsolicited Commercial Emailers Sued The Suncoast Freenet "Two words: Darth Doogie." -- Jason Colby, Tampa Bay, Florida on alt.fan.heinlein +1 813 790 7592 Managing Editor, Top Of The Key sports e-zine ------------ http://www.totk.com
On Fri, 17 Apr 1998, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
Why even use a different name? Round robin works fine, and if all the registries participate in a cross-mirroring program, then all would be well, no? If you mirror correctly, it doesn't much matter _which_ host you hit.
Except that if packets don't need to cross the ocean, why send them that way? ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jon Lewis <jlewis@fdt.net> | http://noagent.com/?jl1 for cheap Network Administrator | life insurance over the net. Florida Digital Turnpike | ______http://inorganic5.fdt.net/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key____
On Sat, Apr 18, 1998 at 02:44:20AM -0400, Jon Lewis wrote:
On Fri, 17 Apr 1998, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
Why even use a different name? Round robin works fine, and if all the registries participate in a cross-mirroring program, then all would be well, no? If you mirror correctly, it doesn't much matter _which_ host you hit.
Except that if packets don't need to cross the ocean, why send them that way?
Now, c'mon, Jon; that's _way_ too obvious a reason. :-) Tag them by continent; but mirror what's behind them _anyway_. Of course, if DNS didn't see fit to _sort_ addresses, this would be a problem, but (say it with me now:) that's a topic for another list. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Unsolicited Commercial Emailers Sued The Suncoast Freenet "Two words: Darth Doogie." -- Jason Colby, Tampa Bay, Florida on alt.fan.heinlein +1 813 790 7592 Managing Editor, Top Of The Key sports e-zine ------------ http://www.totk.com
and if all the registries participate in a cross-mirroring program, then all would be well, no? If you mirror correctly, it doesn't much matter _which_ host you hit.
<CYNICISM> Eh? You mean you won't have to know which registry to hit to look up an address beforehand? Where would the fun be in that? </CYNICISM> The ARIN database and the RIPE/APNIC databases are incompatible (something that was going to be fixed in the RIDE (registry information data exchange) WG, but it seems to have run into a snag or something), thus mirroring would be a bit more work than one might imagine. Regards, -drc
On Sun, Apr 19, 1998 at 08:47:56PM +0800, David R. Conrad wrote:
and if all the registries participate in a cross-mirroring program, then all would be well, no? If you mirror correctly, it doesn't much matter _which_ host you hit.
<CYNICISM> Eh? You mean you won't have to know which registry to hit to look up an address beforehand? Where would the fun be in that? </CYNICISM>
:-)
The ARIN database and the RIPE/APNIC databases are incompatible (something that was going to be fixed in the RIDE (registry information data exchange) WG, but it seems to have run into a snag or something), thus mirroring would be a bit more work than one might imagine.
Forgive me, I wasn't clear: if each registry, in addition to it's own database lookup services, operates mirrors of the database lookup services of the other registries: IE: I can't get to whois.arin.net, so I go to ap.arin.net, which lives at the APNIC, on their network space. Clearer? Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Unsolicited Commercial Emailers Sued The Suncoast Freenet "Two words: Darth Doogie." -- Jason Colby, Tampa Bay, Florida on alt.fan.heinlein +1 813 790 7592 Managing Editor, Top Of The Key sports e-zine ------------ http://www.totk.com
Hi,
if each registry, in addition to it's own database lookup services, operates mirrors of the database lookup services of the other registries
I don't think* APNIC (or RIPE for that matter) has much interest in paying NSI to run the software used at ARIN, and I don't think ARIN has much interest in running the RIPE database software (albeit its free) that RIPE and APNIC use. I understand what you are saying and yes, it'd be nice if the registries mirror each other. Unfortunately, the technology to do so does not yet exist [back! back! down! (fighting off another attack of cynicism)]. RIDE -- it's not just a good idea, it's... umm, well, it's a good idea. Regards, -drc (*) I'd be more definitive if I was still in charge of APNIC... (:-)).
it'd be nice if the registries mirror each other. Unfortunately, the technology to do so does not yet exist [back! back! down! (fighting off another attack of cynicism)]. RIDE -- it's not just a good idea, it's... umm, well, it's a good idea.
it was a good idea. then it decided to be a wonderful expansive design by committee, as opposed to sticking to the simple goal. as we have never seen this kind of committee failure mode before, one can understand why this mistake has been made. <dripping sarcasm> rady
Randy, Randy Bush writes:
it'd be nice if the registries mirror each other. Unfortunately, the technology to do so does not yet exist [back! back! down! (fighting off another attack of cynicism)]. RIDE -- it's not just a good idea, it's... umm, well, it's a good idea.
it was a good idea. then it decided to be a wonderful expansive design by committee, as opposed to sticking to the simple goal.
The goal was simple and the goal is still simple. Proposals were made to add more features. People (you were one of those people) felt that this would add too much complexity and that we should stick to our simple goals. This resulted in deciding to drop any extra features. Please read the charter & BOF minutes if you are interested in the facts: http://www.isi.edu/~davidk/ride
as we have never seen this kind of committee failure mode before, one can understand why this mistake has been made. <dripping sarcasm>
The reasons for failure was a combination of circumstances: 1) I was one of the initiators of this wg (and chaired it), but, as you know, had no time, for personal reasons, to work on this initiative for several months late last year. 2) The first would not have been a problem if we would have received more support in general, and of the regional IP registries in particular (note: this is not to blame anyone from the registries, we all know that the registries had to deal with a lot of changes last year) 3) Messages to the OPS ADs went often unanswered, apparently there was discussion whether it should have been in APPS or OPS or not done altogether. 4) This work is not my core business, although very closely related. Due to all those considerations and heavy workload on my part I stopped pushing for this to happen ... And then the latest news: 5) Last IETF, people came to me, and started pushing that we should start working on this again ... 6) John Curran told he forwarded a wg message before the previous IETF, but apparently something went wrong there. 7) We at ISI are working on a specification for routing registry data exchange protocols, which has very simular requirements. we will talk to the IP registries to see if we can find some common ground to save time and work. 8) Three unnamed people of three regional registries and me are talking 9) RPSL support for the RIPE database which I am currently finishing does have support for giving hints to whois clients were to find certain data when the server cannot find it locally (for domain, AS# and NIC handle data, this can be extended to IP data too). Whois/web client programs that can resolve those hints are also available. Conclusion: Sarcasm/cynicism doesn't produce running code. Something will be done in the form of working code, sooner or later, whether it's inside IETF or outside. Talk to your regional registry if you would like to have faster/more progress. This discussion doesn't really belong on NANOG. Please send me private E-mail when you have questions/comments/disagreements, David K. ---
On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, David R. Conrad wrote:
I don't think* APNIC (or RIPE for that matter) has much interest in paying NSI to run the software used at ARIN, and I don't think ARIN has much interest in running the RIPE database software (albeit its free) that RIPE and APNIC use.
So ARIN can spend about one /19 registration fee on a server to send over to one of the other registries, and can run a mirror server at that remote location. They'd use SSH/scp so as to be sure nobody from the other registry sniffed their packets and stole the secrets of their software. Maybe I'm missing something...it just doesn't seem like rocket science to me. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jon Lewis <jlewis@fdt.net> | http://noagent.com/?jl1 for cheap Network Administrator | life insurance over the net. Florida Digital Turnpike | ______http://inorganic5.fdt.net/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key____
Jon,
So ARIN can spend about one /19 registration fee on a server to send over to one of the other registries, and can run a mirror server at that remote location.
Why put it at a another registry? Why not put it off an exchange? Or why not allow ARIN members to mirror the database? I'm sure NSI would love to sell the software... (:-)).
Maybe I'm missing something...it just doesn't seem like rocket science to me.
I guess it is a question of usability (as Randy pointed out). I personally think the fact that people have to know what prefixes have been allocated to whom before they can find out what prefixes have been allocated to whom is _really_ broken. It used to not matter too much (other than the aesthetic unpleasantness of it all), but given the increase of spam and the use of the registry database "system" to figure out who to scream at, the fact that the registry database "system" sucks is beginning to matter more and more. Yes, this is a different issue than merely mirroring a single registry's database. Regards, -drc
On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, David R. Conrad wrote:
So ARIN can spend about one /19 registration fee on a server to send over to one of the other registries, and can run a mirror server at that remote location.
Why put it at a another registry? Why not put it off an exchange? Or why not allow ARIN members to mirror the database? I'm sure NSI would love to sell the software... (:-)).
Just figuring the various registries would be willing to exchage colocation services with each other at no charge. I guess if you have expense accounts and such, put the mirrors all over.
I guess it is a question of usability (as Randy pointed out). I personally think the fact that people have to know what prefixes have been allocated to whom before they can find out what prefixes have been allocated to whom is _really_ broken. It used to not matter too much (other than the
Wouldn't it make more sense if registry data was handled similar to DNS? i.e. if you had to know that to resolve lewis.org, the DNS server to ask was kashmir.fdt.net, DNS would be worthless. First your resolver asks one of the root-servers, and they tell you who to ask. Why not have a root registry...so when I do a whois of 200.27.89.0, I don't have to figure out or guess which registry to ask. I just ask (maybe rs.iana.org) and it tells my whois client which registry to ask...and the client (transparent to me) asks the appropriate registry and gives me the answer I was looking for. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jon Lewis <jlewis@fdt.net> | http://noagent.com/?jl1 for cheap Network Administrator | life insurance over the net. Florida Digital Turnpike | ______http://inorganic5.fdt.net/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key____
Hi,
Wouldn't it make more sense if registry data was handled similar to DNS?
Right. As I said previously, its just a small matter of programming (e.g., see rwhois). There are a couple of issues, however: a) if the registry database is used to provide contact information to help resolve network problems (a stretch, I know :-)), and the only way you can obtain the contact information is via the network, then if the network is broken to the place you need to get to to find the contact information... (yes, caching and seconarying can solve this issue) b) quality assurance -- how much can you trust the people you delegate authority to manage the data (yes, strong QA control can solve this issue)? My personal past experience has shown both of these to be a problem. Regards, -drc
On Fri, Apr 24, 1998 at 06:58:16PM +0800, David R. Conrad wrote:
Hi,
Wouldn't it make more sense if registry data was handled similar to DNS?
Right. As I said previously, its just a small matter of programming (e.g., see rwhois).
There are a couple of issues, however:
a) if the registry database is used to provide contact information to help resolve network problems (a stretch, I know :-)), and the only way you can obtain the contact information is via the network, then if the network is broken to the place you need to get to to find the contact information... (yes, caching and seconarying can solve this issue)
b) quality assurance -- how much can you trust the people you delegate authority to manage the data (yes, strong QA control can solve this issue)?
My personal past experience has shown both of these to be a problem.
And they're a problem with the current WHOIS which is used for DNS registrations, but we still use WHOIS to look up domain information. I say, let's put the thing into place, because it IS a workable (if not perfect) solution, and we can always make improvements. -- Steve Sobol, Tech Support Guru, NACS.NET [http://www.nacs.net/support] COOL SONG EXCERPT OF THE DAY: Get tied, you're talking to a tourist/Whose every move's among the purest... I get my kicks ABOVE the waistline, Sunshine! --Murray Head, "One Night in Bangkok"
On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, The world ended an hour ago. Where were you? wrote:
And they're a problem with the current WHOIS which is used for DNS registrations, but we still use WHOIS to look up domain information. I say, let's put the thing into place, because it IS a workable (if not perfect) solution, and we can always make improvements.
While not the most elegant solution to the problem, anyone can modify their whois client to lookup via multiple whois servers. -- Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com
The more correct solution would be for ARIN to move to a RIPE-ish whois server. Then again, why should ARIN use industry standard, public domain software, when they can use NSI's proprietary system? Obviously, RIPE, APNIC, RIPN, MCI-RR, RADB, CA*NET, 6BONE, etc. are all fools for using that darn free stuff... Anyone who uses the RADB can attest to how well the IRR databases share information, both with each other and with daily dumps. Too bad NSI and now ARIN don't want to play nice with the other children. Tip of the day: You can make a "normal" whois client act more like a RIPE whois client by putting a -- before the RIPE-specific options. Stephen David R. Conrad wrote:
Why put it at a another registry? Why not put it off an exchange? Or why not allow ARIN members to mirror the database? I'm sure NSI would love to sell the software... (:-)).
-- Stephen Sprunk, KD5DWP "Oops." Email: sprunk@paranet.com Sprint Paranet -Albert Einstein ICBM: 33.00151N 96.82326W
On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, Stephen wrote:
The more correct solution would be for ARIN to move to a RIPE-ish whois server.
Then again, why should ARIN use industry standard, public domain software, when they can use NSI's proprietary system?
Probably because the database would need to be converted and the ARIN staff have their hands full already with starting up a new organization and a new network in new offices.
Too bad NSI and now ARIN don't want to play nice with the other children.
If you make a good case for ARIN adopting the RIPE software and database format then I'll present it to the rest of the Advisory Council. So tell me, what are the pros and what are the cons of switching to the RIPE format? How much lead time will network operators need to make sure automated systems don't break? -- Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com
On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, Stephen wrote:
The more correct solution would be for ARIN to move to a RIPE-ish whois server.
Then again, why should ARIN use industry standard, public domain software, when they can use NSI's proprietary system?
Probably because the database would need to be converted and the ARIN staff have their hands full already with starting up a new organization and a new network in new offices.
Actually we've recently begun the lengthy process of converting our db and we're open to all options and suggestions especially those that will enable us to coordinate more closely with all other registries. Kim Hubbard ARIN
On Sun, 19 Apr 1998, David R. Conrad wrote:
The ARIN database and the RIPE/APNIC databases are incompatible (something that was going to be fixed in the RIDE (registry information data exchange) WG, but it seems to have run into a snag or something), thus mirroring would be a bit more work than one might imagine.
Who says the databases have to be merged to be mirrored? ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jon Lewis <jlewis@fdt.net> | http://noagent.com/?jl1 for cheap Network Administrator | life insurance over the net. Florida Digital Turnpike | ______http://inorganic5.fdt.net/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key____
Who says the databases have to be merged to be mirrored?
as a user of these databases, i want to perceive it all as one database where i can get my question answered in a single query.
randy
evidently Randy sez. -- Jason Weisberger Chief Technology Officer SoftAware, Inc. - 310/305-0275 "Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees." -Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
Who says the databases have to be merged to be mirrored? as a user of these databases, i want to perceive it all as one database where i can get my question answered in a single query. evidently Randy sez.
read again. i posited an end-user requirement, not how to implement it. randy
On Wed, Apr 22, 1998 at 02:40:57AM -0700, Randy Bush wrote:
Who says the databases have to be merged to be mirrored? as a user of these databases, i want to perceive it all as one database where i can get my question answered in a single query. evidently Randy sez.
read again. i posited an end-user requirement, not how to implement it.
randy
No, you posited an end-user *request*. Since you are dealing with multiple firms, none of whom are required to cooperate, that's where it begins and ends. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly / All Lines K56Flex/DOV | NEW! Corporate ISDN Prices dropped by up to 50%! Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost
On Wed, 22 Apr 1998, Randy Bush wrote:
Who says the databases have to be merged to be mirrored?
as a user of these databases, i want to perceive it all as one database where i can get my question answered in a single query.
That's a totally different issue than mirroring for redundancy. Current trends (Internic/ARIN database split) seem to be moving in the opposite direction. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jon Lewis <jlewis@fdt.net> | http://noagent.com/?jl1 for cheap Network Administrator | life insurance over the net. Florida Digital Turnpike | ______http://inorganic5.fdt.net/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key____
Actually, for a database server (as opposed to a transport mechanism which should NEVER have down time) the best time for changes is in the middle of the work day. There is less chance of error due to fatigue. There is no overtime requirement. There is usually a full crew on hand to test and verify and, possibly, clean up in case of less than full success. JimC At 2:09 PM -0600 4/16/98, Forrest W. Christian wrote: <snip>>
The point I was trying to make was that if you HAVE to take something down at ARIN, daylight hours for the americas is probably NOT the best time to do it: <snip> - Forrest W. Christian (forrestc@imach.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- iMach, Ltd., P.O. Box 5749, Helena, MT 59604 http://www.imach.com Solutions for your high-tech problems. (406)-442-6648 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
- James R. Cutler EDS , 800 Tower Drive, Troy, MI 48098 Phone: +1 248 265 7514 FAX: +1 248 265 7514 EDS Internal Web: <http://www.iscg.eds.com/cutler/> World Wide Web: <http://www.ltu.edu/midecus/dechtm/cutler/cutler.htm>
participants (20)
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Brian Horvitz -
David Lesher -
David R. Conrad -
davidk＠ISI.EDU -
Forrest W. Christian -
James R. Cutler -
jamie＠dilbert.ais.net -
Jason L. Weisberger -
Jay R. Ashworth -
Jeremiah Kristal -
Jon Lewis -
Justin W. Newton -
Karl Denninger -
Kim Hubbard -
Michael Dillon -
Randy Bush -
Robert E. Seastrom -
Stephen -
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