RE: [Re: This may be stupid but.. ]
I agree certifications are overated at best. Give me someone with the right attitude and I'll teach him anything. Showing the ability to get things done is the greatest skill imo. -----Original Message----- From: Timothy R. McKee [mailto:tim@baseworx.net] Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 11:48 AM To: joshua sahala Cc: Peter Galbavy; Richard Irving; Eric Brunner-Williams in Portland Maine; Vadim Antonov; John Brown (CV); Nanog List (E-mail) Subject: Re: [Re: This may be stupid but.. ] On Mon, 2003-11-10 at 11:36, joshua sahala wrote:
"Peter Galbavy" <peter.galbavy@knowtion.net> wrote:
Acronyms mean sh*t. When involved in any hiring process, I actively avoid CCIE/MSCE/etc. laden resumes. Mentioning once, fine. Using them like religious phrases is an indictation of, well, stupidity.
certifications are often necessary to open the door - granted if you were architecting internetworks when many of today's certified 'engineers' were still in grade school, then no, certifications are probably not needed.
I consider myself one of the 'old guys' and all the experience in the world doesn't mean &%*$&%*$ to a recruiter OR a company hiring manager if you don't have the magic initials they've heard about behind your name. I was always too busy doing my 'real job' making the customers happy so I never spent time getting 'useless' certifications or developing networking relationships with other professionals for later use. Those of you with jobs, be very careful not to be lured into that trap. You've got to think of your future first and foremost. No one else will. Tim McKee
i'm recruiter-proof. i'm not sure i'd want anyone who wasn't.
Aye. I have *never* used my CV/Resume in getting a job. I still have one, but it's very out of date.
never is a long time
perhaps it is just the fact that i am 'new' to the field, but my resume has gotten me all but one job, and my resume indirectly got me that one.
my slightly bitter $0.02
/joshua
Peter
"Walk with me through the Universe, And along the way see how all of us are Connected. Feast the eyes of your Soul, On the Love that abounds. In all places at once, seemingly endless, Like your own existence." - Stephen Hawking -
-- Timothy R. McKee <tim@baseworx.net>
Thus spake "'Timothy R. McKee'" <tim@baseworx.net>
I agree certifications are overated at best.
Give me someone with the right attitude and I'll teach him anything.
Showing the ability to get things done is the greatest skill imo.
Unfortunately, most recruiters and even hiring managers have no way to determine if a candidate has the skills or attitude necessary for a high-end tech job. This, IMHO, is where certifications become somewhat valid; they provide a minimum bar (however low) for non-technical people to use. They're misused too, of course. I've had several recruiters tell me I wasn't qualified for a job because I wasn't a CCNA -- CCIE wasn't good enough. S Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 12:51:55PM -0500, Fisher, Shawn wrote:
I agree certifications are overated at best.
Give me someone with the right attitude and I'll teach him anything.
Showing the ability to get things done is the greatest skill imo.
I once read the following and saved it away... "Hire and promote first on the basis of integrity; second, motivation; third, capacity; fourth, understanding; fifth, knowledge; and last and least, experience. Without integrity, motivation is dangerous; without motivation, capacity is impotent; without capacity, understanding is limited; without understanding, knowledge is meaningless; without knowledge, experience is blind. Experience is easy to provide and quickly put to good use by people with all the other qualities." Have no clue who's the origin. Best regards, Daniel
On Nov 10, 2003, at 2:38 PM, Daniel Roesen wrote:
On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 12:51:55PM -0500, Fisher, Shawn wrote:
I agree certifications are overated at best.
Give me someone with the right attitude and I'll teach him anything.
Showing the ability to get things done is the greatest skill imo.
I once read the following and saved it away...
"Hire and promote first on the basis of integrity; second, motivation; third, capacity; fourth, understanding; fifth, knowledge; and last and least, experience. Without integrity, motivation is dangerous; without motivation, capacity is impotent; without capacity, understanding is limited; without understanding, knowledge is meaningless; without knowledge, experience is blind. Experience is easy to provide and quickly put to good use by people with all the other qualities."
Have no clue who's the origin.
So what you're saying is you want cisco to certify people's integrity? :)
Best regards, Daniel
-- Matt Levine <matt@deliver3.com> "The Trouble with doing anything right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was." -BIX
On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Matt Levine wrote:
So what you're saying is you want cisco to certify people's integrity? :)
Bether them than Belkin. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Administration - jay@west.net WestNet: Connecting you to the planet. 805 884-6323 WB6RDV NetLojix Communications, Inc. - http://www.netlojix.com/
participants (5)
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Daniel Roesen -
Fisher, Shawn -
Jay Hennigan -
Matt Levine -
Stephen Sprunk