Re: Cutting to the chase (was RE: ABOVE.NET SECURITY TRUTHS?)
Since I value your input, I'm not sure if you are joking, or serious.
I understand the humorous issues involved here (believe me, I do), I'm really serious about this, and I need serious feedback.
I was obviously joking about the "disinformation experts" comment, at least to some degree. However, I certainly do agree that it's a good idea to discuss this as you propose at the upcoming NANOG, especially in lieu of recent occurrences. I don't believe some folks realize how much people read into topics discussed on this list, or understand the impact that seemingly simple posts (accusations about Vendor A's broken software, Vendor B's broken hardware, ISP A's broken network, ISP B's poor customer service, ISP C's security practices, etc..) have on these businesses, and more so, the individuals involved, especially since those accusations are often [demonstrated] premature or completely unfounded. -danny
At 03:23 AM 04/29/2000 -0600, Danny McPherson wrote:
I was obviously joking about the "disinformation experts" comment, at least to some degree.
That's semi-comforting, at least. ;-)
However, I certainly do agree that it's a good idea to discuss this as you propose at the upcoming NANOG, especially in lieu of recent occurrences.
That is good to know _- I knew you'd agree! :-)
I don't believe some folks realize how much people read into topics discussed on this list, or understand the impact that seemingly simple posts (accusations about Vendor A's broken software, Vendor B's broken hardware, ISP A's broken network, ISP B's poor customer service, ISP C's security practices, etc..) have on these businesses, and more so, the individuals involved, especially since those accusations are often [demonstrated] premature or completely unfounded.
Yes, this is entirely counter-productive. Not that I'm a money-grubbing, stock-sucking bastard, but speaking as a member of the "community", I'm a little spooked by how reckless journalism, and off-hand comments on mailing lists, affect peoples (read: companies) financial futures (this is actually just the tip of the proverbial iceberg). If things/people/processes/architecture/etc. is at fault, then let's discuss it as a community that wishes to propel ourselves into the promising future. Otherwise, let's just demonize everyone whow learns their lesson the old fashioned way -- with failures. I'm really pissed off over this whole issue. - paul
Not that I'm a money-grubbing, stock-sucking bastard, but speaking as a member of the "community", I'm a little spooked by how reckless journalism, and off-hand comments on mailing lists, affect peoples (read: companies) financial futures (this is actually just the tip of the proverbial iceberg).
It has another effect, which is that it tars other posts with the same brush. Those of us with glimpse-index memories can often remember who posts generally good stuff. Few would categorize Sean Donelan's outage posts in the same group as "Vendor X's network sucks". But knowing not to so categorize them relies on either extensive past knowledge of NANOG or Sean. Discussion of operational issues is made more difficult when many posts are (or seem to be) tainted by misinformation. -- Alex Bligh VP Core Network, Concentric Network Corporation (formerly GX Networks, Xara Networks)
It is wise to remember that although many of the posters on this list consider it "community" that we have lurkers with "other" intentions. This may vary from script kiddies to the media. Even when one exposes the issues in one's network/equipment/etc. one still airs dirty laundry. The trick is to make sure it stinks as little as possible. Unfortunately, the longer the dirty laundry sits at the bottom of the pile, the worse it will stink when it ends up on the top. On Fri, Apr 28, 2000 at 11:32:25PM -0400, Paul Ferguson wrote:
Not that I'm a money-grubbing, stock-sucking bastard, but speaking as a member of the "community", I'm a little spooked by how reckless journalism, and off-hand comments on mailing lists, affect peoples (read: companies) financial futures (this is actually just the tip of the proverbial iceberg).
- paul
-- Jeffrey Haas - Merit RSng project - jeffhaas@merit.edu
participants (4)
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Alex Bligh -
Danny McPherson -
Jeff Haas -
Paul Ferguson