Faisal, I worked directly with FiberStore's engineers to determine the optics and mux needed for my use case.  They recommended the mux and the optics for the 3km distance.   You can always buy stronger optics, but that is not point I am making.   I provided the scale and scope of the project and they provided the BOM to deliver the required service.  When the equipment failed, FiberStore refused to honor their return policy and issue an RMA until we threatened legal action.  Same sales scenario with OSI Hardware..  They provide the BOM with passive muxes and 10km optics and it works with no problem. In this scenario, I can definitely blame the manufacturer.  No to mention the terrible technical support that they offer. On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:30 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal@snappytelecom.net> wrote: Kenneth, I am sorry, but it sounds like you made a mistake in not calculating loss of the devices in the path, and are blaming a Mfg for the mistake... They clearly list the insertion loss for the different muxes in the specs on their website. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth McRae" <kenneth.mcrae@me.com> To: "Rodrigo 1telecom" <rodrigo@1telecom.com.br> Cc: "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 2:04:10 PM Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear Hi Enviado, I cannot recommend FiberStore as I had a bad experience with them.  I needed to cover only 3km from A to B side.  When using 10km optics, I saw a loss of over 5db  with their passive mux inserted into the path which created a total loss of over -20db which is outside of the tolerances for our equipment with 10km SFP+.  Using another vendors low insertion loss mux corrected our issue.  I am sure if you are using an 80km optic, you may be able to tolerate a higher insertion loss to cover < 60km.  I also notice that their CDWM optics averaged about 3db less in power output when compared to other vendors. Thanks Kenneth On Feb 07, 2015, at 10:33 AM, Rodrigo 1telecom <rodrigo@1telecom.com.br> wrote: Hi kenneth... which the distance do you have from side A to side B when you using passive solutions from fiberstore( mux and demux)? I buy this mux and demux(4 channels single fiber) and only make a test about 60km( mux side A and demux on side B) with sfp+10gb for 80km... ( only see ddm on my ex3300( about -19db for 60km). Test switch access with ssh and pinging tests... What kind os issue do you have? For distances less than 60km is this solution good? Thanks!!! Enviado via iPhone  Grupo Connectoway Em 07/02/2015, às 14:55, Kenneth McRae <kenneth.mcrae@me.com> escreveu: Mike, I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI Hardware equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessive loss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without threatening legal action, etc.). I have had good results from the OSI equipment so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels). On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Marín <mmg@transtelco.net> wrote: Hi Mike I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective solutions. Ekinops & Packetlight. On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote: I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500) muxes to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't work so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefore must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of channels and have a distance limitation. What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg? ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineering | US: *+1 915-217-2232* | MX: *+52 656-257-1109* CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient of this information, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited. AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDAD: Esta comunicación es sólo para el uso de la persona o entidad a la que se dirige y puede contener información privilegiada, confidencial y exenta de divulgación bajo la legislación aplicable. Si no es el destinatario de esta información, se le notifica que cualquier uso, difusión, distribución o copia de la comunicación está estrictamente prohibido.