RE: Calling all NANOG'ers - idea for national hardware price quote registry
-----Original Message----- From: Charles Gucker [mailto:cgucker@onesc.net]
Well, httpd style logs will certainly "tell" where the information came from.
No logging info of any sort would be enabled.
Uhh, make sure the data isn't stored anywhere vendor X's attornies can get to it. Rest assured, whoever hosts the site would be sent paperwork in hours, if not minutes from it's discovery.
If need be I'll off shore it. Matt
Uhh, make sure the data isn't stored anywhere vendor X's attornies can get to it. Rest assured, whoever hosts the site would be sent paperwork in hours, if not minutes from it's discovery.
If need be I'll off shore it.
Matt
Fine, you can build it and off-shore it, but I suspect that is a case of "if you build it they will not come". I think that people have made it fairly clear that this is a bad idea, but I don't think that anyone is going to stop you building it. I am guessing that you will 1) get inflated prices because the people who are getting the really good discounts are going to be the ones with the most to lose personally and 2) lots of happy shiny letters from vendor's lawyers asking you for logs. Whether or not you have logs is largely irrelevant, you will still get the letters. I don't know about you, but I have better things to do than a: unnecessarily antagonize the same people that you presumable want to get a good discount from and b: collect subpoenas. Warren. -- "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." -- Terry Pratchett
If need be I'll off shore it.
Matt
you've had lots (some) folks point out the perceived dangers of participating in such a venture. ... yet you continue to insist that such a "service" will be of profound value to the community as a whole and is not replicated anywhere else. if you are so persuaded, then it seems that instead of espousing the idea, trying to drum up public support, that you should, to borrow a phrase, "just do it" ... and let people know where the site is and how to use it. as usual, YMMV. and you might want to get legal advice. --bill
Am I the only one who feels that an NDA, even an NDA with a vendor, is an agreement that should be honored ? I know they are silly in many case, but still... Regards Marshall Eubanks On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 23:12:40 +0000 bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote:
If need be I'll off shore it.
Matt
you've had lots (some) folks point out the perceived dangers of participating in such a venture. ... yet you continue to insist that such a "service" will be of profound value to the community as a whole and is not replicated anywhere else.
if you are so persuaded, then it seems that instead of espousing the idea, trying to drum up public support, that you should, to borrow a phrase, "just do it" ... and let people know where the site is and how to use it. as usual, YMMV. and you might want to get legal advice.
--bill
On Fri, 16 Sep 2005, Marshall Eubanks wrote: Am I the only one who feels that an NDA, even an NDA with a vendor, is an agreement that should be honored ? I agree as well. It amuses me to no end that this fellow is posting from his work account at "onelegal.com". matto --matt@snark.net------------------------------------------<darwin>< The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
On Fri, Sep 16, 2005 at 04:46:32PM -0700, Matt Ghali wrote:
On Fri, 16 Sep 2005, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
Am I the only one who feels that an NDA, even an NDA with a vendor, is an agreement that should be honored ?
I agree as well. It amuses me to no end that this fellow is posting from his work account at "onelegal.com".
Not to mention the fact that his "group effort" would just result in higher prices for everyone. Successful vendors are not stupid, they have managed to grasp a concept that has eluded the networking industry for quite some time: Profit. Yes everyone loves it when their vendor takes them out to dinner, or out for a night on the town, but at the end of the day who do you think pays for it? You do. If you think your vendor is your friend in this industry, your wallet is in for a bad time. Your vendor is your mortal enemy who you just get to act friendly with, nothing more. There is a profit margin which must be maintained, and that means the vendors will excercise the time tested art of maximum extraction and pricing at what the market will bear. Your good deal is funded by someone else's bad deal, where a couple of bottles of wine made them pay $20mil too much. You have to remember, these are not a mass market consumer style products, where a retailer buys at a wholesale price and sells at a retail price. You aren't going to help push prices down by collecting data about who is selling it for the cheapest. Even if you managed to successfully violate every NDA on the planet and show everyone what everyone else is paying, it will not change the bottom line profits which must be made. Every time you see someone who paid more than you did (especially if they are your competitor), you should rejoice, because they just funded your better deal. And if you have any doubt about who has and who hasn't mastered the art of maximum extraction in the name of profit, compare: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/cf?s=CSCO vs http://finance.yahoo.com/q/cf?s=LVLT -- Richard A Steenbergen <ras@e-gerbil.net> http://www.e-gerbil.net/ras GPG Key ID: 0xF8B12CBC (7535 7F59 8204 ED1F CC1C 53AF 4C41 5ECA F8B1 2CBC)
----- Original Message ----- From: "Marshall Eubanks" <tme@multicasttech.com> To: <bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com>; "Matt Bazan" <Mbazan@onelegal.com> Cc: <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 7:36 PM Subject: Re: Calling all NANOG'ers - idea for national hardware price quote registry
Am I the only one who feels that an NDA, even an NDA with a vendor, is an agreement that should be honored ?
I know they are silly in many case, but still...
yes, they are silly and, imo, highly unethical. with certain types of equipment an individual vendor or a pair of vendors have a virtual monopoly, so their actions and policies should be viewed in that light. with that said, two wrongs don't make a right. if you try to make something happen to change their behaviour, such as persuading them to act differently or compelling them to do so through regulation or legislation - great and many thanks. however, giving someone your word (this is what signing an agreement means) - at least for me - means i'm going to keep it. if you are not prepared to do so, don't give it/sign it. morality is about *your* behaviour first and foremost, since you can't be held responsible for that of others. -p --- paul galynin
"Marshall Eubanks" <tme@multicasttech.com> writes:
Am I the only one who feels that an NDA, even an NDA with a vendor, is an agreement that should be honored ?
I know they are silly in many case, but still...
We certainly wish for our vendors to honor *their* NDAs with us, don't we? RIRs come specifically to mind, but hardware vendors often get sensitive information about our businesses as well. Honor is as honor does. I'm with Marshall on this point. BTW, I notice that "onelegal.com" is a civil litigation support company. Maybe Matt is just trying to drum up some new business by making this suggestion. ---Rob
participants (8)
-
bmanning＠vacation.karoshi.com -
Marshall Eubanks -
Matt Bazan -
Matt Ghali -
Paul G -
Richard A Steenbergen -
Robert E.Seastrom -
Warren Kumari