Well, some folks at ISI have already been involved in a project similar to this, contacting folks who have been allocated bits-n-pieces of *the* TWD, 192/8. Suzanne Woolf gave a presentation at LA/IETF on the progress of 192/8 address reclamation, complete with precentages of 192/8 users who were willing to give up the allocation, users who were unwilling to give up the allocation, and so forth. I thought that she was going to put this data up on the web at ISI, but I couldn't find it this morning when I looked there. In any event, I'm not sure this is a valid project for PIER. Its really within our scope of work or within our charter. - paul At 12:38 AM 4/4/96 -0800, Craig A. Huegen wrote:
I would recommend that the PIER group work with providers on this; PIER would be a great organization to take the huge ACTIVE table of /24's and mail the listed contacts for the network to offer tools, easier renumbering methods, etc., to minimize impact to the network's customers. Once all the mails are sent out and a semi-generous grace period is set, PIER should recommend a date providers should stop listening to /24 announcements.
Well, some folks at ISI have already been involved in a project similar to this, contacting folks who have been allocated bits-n-pieces of *the* TWD, 192/8. Suzanne Woolf gave a presentation at LA/IETF on the progress of 192/8 address reclamation, complete with precentages of 192/8 users who were willing to give up the allocation, users who were unwilling to give up the allocation, and so forth.>
This work hasn't moved forward much in the last month, partly because I've been busy (I'm sometimes rumored to have responsibility for an actual network....) and largely, as Paul says, for lack of a home: consensus at the PIER meeting seemed to be that this isn't a PIER thing (off charter). However, maybe NANOG is a natural home for it; there was some interest when we talked about it at the San Diego meeting, although it's significantly outside day-to-day issues for most engineers, who seem to actually spend most of their time keeping networks running. As most folks here already know, the basic problem with cleaning up the TWD, and by extension any chunk of IP space, is in two parts: 1. Finding the people responsible The InterNIC database, for well-known reasons mostly about history and lack of incentives, is not a good source for this information in 192/8. Some measure of cleanup there is a good side-effect of pursuing this work but can't be relied on to drive it. In addition, we did some preliminary analysis on routing table entries for /24s in 192/8, which we presented in the IEPG meeting on March 2, available as http://www.isi.edu/div7/pier/whose_routes. But the indications so far are that the required contact information is scattered and incomplete. It seems likely that such information will be easier to find for more recent allocations, however. 2. "Social engineering" their behavior The survey data was pretty definitive on one point: there are many folks out there with legacy address allocations who are completely unaware of allocation issues that have developed over the last couple of years, from CIDR onwards. I choose to take this as cause for hope-- it means some number of them will Do the Right Thing if a) it's explained to them and b) it's not too hard for them. PIER and other efforts are taking care of (b); I'm willing to pursue (a), but it seems like it will also require efforts of providers and registries, and other things traditionally outside the realm of both-- like, perish the thought, reaching people through the trade press. Regarding item 1, we're proceeding with the problem of cleaning up the contact information we do have. Regarding Item 2, I suspect some, perhaps many, providers would be willing and able to help with an educational effort in this area targeted towards their customers; such an effort needs materials and followup, but seems do-able. Suzanne who still thinks (hopes?) social engineering doesn't require blunt instruments
participants (2)
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Paul Ferguson
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Suzanne Woolf