Hi, This is a bit off topic, but I'm sure someone here has opinions to share... I'm looking for carpeting for the area outside of a machine room that won't cause the "shuffle your feet and shock yourself" phenomenon. I noticed most datacenters I've seen are carpeted up to the entrance without any ESD problems. Is there special "anti-ESD" carpet? Where might I find it? Thanks, Charles =-----------------= = | Charles Sprickman Internet Channel | | INCH System Administration Team (212)243-5200 | | spork@inch.com access@inch.com | = =----------------=
I'm looking for carpeting for the area outside of a machine room that won't cause the "shuffle your feet and shock yourself" phenomenon. I noticed most datacenters I've seen are carpeted up to the entrance without any ESD problems. Is there special "anti-ESD" carpet? Where might I find it?
Yes. Searching AltaVista for "anti-static carpet" (without the quotes) will produce results of which the following is in the first ten matches: http://accessfloor.com/top/carpet/default.html I once recommended anti-static carpet for a machine room, and I was very happy with the way it turned out. I might be able to dig up the name of the supplier if you contact me off-line. Stephen
Stephen Stuart wrote:
I'm looking for carpeting for the area outside of a machine room that won't cause the "shuffle your feet and shock yourself" phenomenon. I noticed most datacenters I've seen are carpeted up to the entrance without any ESD problems. Is there special "anti-ESD" carpet? Where might I find it?
Yes. Searching AltaVista for "anti-static carpet" (without the quotes) will produce results of which the following is in the first ten matches:
http://accessfloor.com/top/carpet/default.html
I once recommended anti-static carpet for a machine room, and I was very happy with the way it turned out. I might be able to dig up the name of the supplier if you contact me off-line.
Stephen
This stuff is expensive. Most of anti-static carpet fabric will have wire threaded through it and a drain wire attached that you should ground. It may be far easier to pick up a grounded chair mat that you can place at the table. Any used office supply place should have them. Tim -- Snail: Tim Pozar / LNS / 1978 45th Ave / San Francisco CA 94116 / USA POTS: +1 415 665 3790 Radio: KC6GNJ / KAE6247 "It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word." - Andrew Jackson "What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which is the exact opposite." -- Bertrand Russell
On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, Tim Pozar wrote:
This stuff is expensive. Most of anti-static carpet fabric will have wire threaded through it and a drain wire attached that you should ground.
Just to formally close out the carpet thread, there appears to be a single source for the stuff. 3M makes tiles and treatments, and many carpet companies have carpet that has a special anti-static backing, but only one seems to have "certified" static-free carpet. You can find it at http://www.utp.com. The process involves some type of conductive carbon fiber woven into it that is bound to a conductive backing. At approx. every 1000 sq. feet there is a grounding strap. The carpet is available in rolls or in tile-sized pieces, and looks to be completely safe for any computing environment. Pricing starts at about $22/sq yd. for the roll product. Any carpet installer should be able to order it and install it, as there is no special process involved other than attaching the grounding strap, and anyone who's handy should be able to figure that part out. The folks at UTP are pretty friendly on the phone and will answer any technical questions you can think of. You get some nice free samples if you call. We're going with this solution. Our machine room is very small, and the surrounding build/test/repair/work area isn't that much larger and could use some static reduction. Charles
It may be far easier to pick up a grounded chair mat that you can place at the table. Any used office supply place should have them.
Tim -- Snail: Tim Pozar / LNS / 1978 45th Ave / San Francisco CA 94116 / USA POTS: +1 415 665 3790 Radio: KC6GNJ / KAE6247 "It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word." - Andrew Jackson "What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which is the exact opposite." -- Bertrand Russell
=-----------------= = | Charles Sprickman Internet Channel | | INCH System Administration Team (212)243-5200 | | spork@inch.com access@inch.com | = =----------------=
Charles Sprickman wrote:
Just to formally close out the carpet thread, there appears to be a single source for the stuff. 3M makes tiles and treatments, and many carpet companies have carpet that has a special anti-static backing, but only one seems to have "certified" static-free carpet.
...
We're going with this solution. Our machine room is very small, and the surrounding build/test/repair/work area isn't that much larger and could use some static reduction.
There's another reason for NOT using carpet in a machine room. Dust. Carpet in general is an actual source of dust of the fine fiber kind. We just got done moving our machine room from one room with carpet (not of the static-free kind) to a room with tiled floor. There were a number of reasons we needed to make this move, and the carpet was not one of them. During the move we took the opportunity to "blow out" a lot of equipment. When chunks of fine dust with close to the same color as that carpet were coming out of the UPSes, I then knew there was yet another reason to make the move. Is there any carpet specifically designed to reduce the level of dust emissions? -- -- *-----------------------------* Phil Howard KA9WGN * -- -- | Inturnet, Inc. | Director of Internet Services | -- -- | Business Internet Solutions | eng at intur.net | -- -- *-----------------------------* philh at intur.net * --
At 08:44 AM 10/28/98 -0600, Phil Howard wrote:
Charles Sprickman wrote:
Just to formally close out the carpet thread, there appears to be a single source for the stuff. 3M makes tiles and treatments, and many carpet companies have carpet that has a special anti-static backing, but only one seems to have "certified" static-free carpet.
...
We're going with this solution. Our machine room is very small, and the surrounding build/test/repair/work area isn't that much larger and could use some static reduction.
There's another reason for NOT using carpet in a machine room. Dust.
Carpet in general is an actual source of dust of the fine fiber kind. We just got done moving our machine room from one room with carpet
as that carpet were coming out of the UPSes, I then knew there was yet another reason to make the move.
Is there any carpet specifically designed to reduce the level of dust emissions?
Carpet, by definition, creates dust. It also traps and recirulates dust, the vacume-cleaners redistribute this dust (the bags are too porous unless it is a wet-vac). Any equipment with a fan in it will inhale this dust in huge quantities. The electrical nature of the equipment will make this dust coat the most heat-sensitive components in that equipment (variation on murphy's law). Thereby, promoting early heat-death <grin>. For those that don't believe me, peel open any equipment that has been running for over a few months. Unless its a positive-pressure ventilation system (they are usually filtered) you will find more dust than you ever imagined. Dust has lousy thermal characteristics and the electrical properties aren't real good either. We don't allow carpet in our machine room, nor the assembly-test area. White anti-static tile works (dust-mopped daily, waxed weekly). Even in such an environment, there will still be dust, just an order of magnitude less of it. ___________________________________________________ Roeland M.J. Meyer, ISOC (InterNIC RM993) e-mail: <mailto:rmeyer@mhsc.com>rmeyer@mhsc.com Internet phone: hawk.mhsc.com Personal web pages: <http://www.mhsc.com/~rmeyer>www.mhsc.com/~rmeyer Company web-site: <http://www.mhsc.com/>www.mhsc.com/ ___________________________________________ I bet the human brain is a kludge. -- Marvin Minsky
If I may, don't expect your carpet installer to know how to figure the grounding straps out. I've known way too many of them. You should pre-determin where the straps are going to be and how they are to be attached to the grounding source and amke sure that it's actually available where the strap is. I could see a carpet installer doing one of the following: 1) cut it off 2) tuck it under 3) nail it to the floor 4) ignore it and maybe you can find it when he's done 5) "I don't know what to do with this, so I'll leave it exposed for you to deal with" 6) "Listen, I don't know anything about 'grounding' a rug. I'll have to come back later. Nothing like carpet installers... James -------- At 12:28 AM 10/28/98 -0500, Charles Sprickman wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, Tim Pozar wrote:
This stuff is expensive. Most of anti-static carpet fabric will have wire threaded through it and a drain wire attached that you should ground.
Just to formally close out the carpet thread, there appears to be a single source for the stuff. 3M makes tiles and treatments, and many carpet companies have carpet that has a special anti-static backing, but only one seems to have "certified" static-free carpet.
You can find it at http://www.utp.com. The process involves some type of conductive carbon fiber woven into it that is bound to a conductive backing. At approx. every 1000 sq. feet there is a grounding strap. The carpet is available in rolls or in tile-sized pieces, and looks to be completely safe for any computing environment. Pricing starts at about $22/sq yd. for the roll product. Any carpet installer should be able to order it and install it, as there is no special process involved other than attaching the grounding strap, and anyone who's handy should be able to figure that part out. The folks at UTP are pretty friendly on the phone and will answer any technical questions you can think of. You get some nice free samples if you call.
We're going with this solution. Our machine room is very small, and the surrounding build/test/repair/work area isn't that much larger and could use some static reduction.
Charles
It may be far easier to pick up a grounded chair mat that you can place at the table. Any used office supply place should have them.
Tim -- Snail: Tim Pozar / LNS / 1978 45th Ave / San Francisco CA 94116 / USA POTS: +1 415 665 3790 Radio: KC6GNJ / KAE6247 "It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word." - Andrew Jackson "What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which is the exact opposite." -- Bertrand Russell
=-----------------= = | Charles Sprickman Internet Channel | | INCH System Administration Team (212)243-5200 | | spork@inch.com access@inch.com | = =----------------=
James McKenzie mcs@1ipnet.net http://www.1ipnet.net
On Thu, Oct 15, 1998 at 04:52:51PM -0700, Stephen Stuart wrote:
I once recommended anti-static carpet for a machine room, and I was very happy with the way it turned out. I might be able to dig up the name of the supplier if you contact me off-line.
Nah, let me... My father is a supplies distributor who sells to flooring contractors and retailers. I guarantee he will have the answer, as he has been in the business for over 20 years. -- Steve Sobol [sjsobol@nacs.net] Part-time Support Droid [support@nacs.net] NACS Spaminator [abuse@nacs.net] I'm not paranoid. Nor are any of the people who are out to get me.
Just walk barfoot... Dirk On Thu, Oct 15, 1998 at 07:38:45PM -0400, Charles Sprickman wrote:
Hi,
This is a bit off topic, but I'm sure someone here has opinions to share...
I'm looking for carpeting for the area outside of a machine room that won't cause the "shuffle your feet and shock yourself" phenomenon. I noticed most datacenters I've seen are carpeted up to the entrance without any ESD problems. Is there special "anti-ESD" carpet? Where might I find it?
Thanks,
Charles
=-----------------= = | Charles Sprickman Internet Channel | | INCH System Administration Team (212)243-5200 | | spork@inch.com access@inch.com | = =----------------=
Most carpet made today is anti-esd. I just found this out as we are building a new data center also. On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, Charles Sprickman wrote:
Hi,
This is a bit off topic, but I'm sure someone here has opinions to share...
I'm looking for carpeting for the area outside of a machine room that won't cause the "shuffle your feet and shock yourself" phenomenon. I noticed most datacenters I've seen are carpeted up to the entrance without any ESD problems. Is there special "anti-ESD" carpet? Where might I find it?
Thanks,
Charles
=-----------------= = | Charles Sprickman Internet Channel | | INCH System Administration Team (212)243-5200 | | spork@inch.com access@inch.com | = =----------------=
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ISPF, The Forum for ISPs by ISPs. October 26-28, 1998, Atlanta, GA. Three days of clues, news, and views from the industry's best and brightest. http://www.ispf.com/ for information and registration. Atheism is a non-prophet organization. I route, therefore I am. Alex Rubenstein, alex@nac.net, KC2BUO, ISP/C Charter Member Father of the Network and Head Bottle-Washer Net Access Corporation, 9 Mt. Pleasant Tpk., Denville, NJ 07834 Don't choose a spineless ISP; we have more backbone! http://www.nac.net -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
At 07:38 PM 10/15/98 -0400, Charles Sprickman wrote:
Hi,
This is a bit off topic, but I'm sure someone here has opinions to share...
I'm looking for carpeting for the area outside of a machine room that won't cause the "shuffle your feet and shock yourself" phenomenon. I noticed most datacenters I've seen are carpeted up to the entrance without any ESD problems. Is there special "anti-ESD" carpet? Where might I find it?
Static is not the *only* problem carpet gives you, there is also higher dust levels with carpet. Ask any allergist. Those data-centers you are talking about usually have anti-static tile in them. The first step one takes on such a floor, from a carpet, completely discharges them. Just make sure the carpet stops more than 5 feet (reaching distance) from any equipment. Also, if there's a door, make it open in-wards, ground the metal door-knob, and stop the carpet at the threshold. That combination will be a good non-intrusive static discharge system. ___________________________________________________ Roeland M.J. Meyer, ISOC (InterNIC RM993) e-mail: <mailto:rmeyer@mhsc.com>rmeyer@mhsc.com Internet phone: hawk.mhsc.com Personal web pages: <http://www.mhsc.com/~rmeyer>www.mhsc.com/~rmeyer Company web-site: <http://www.mhsc.com/>www.mhsc.com/ ___________________________________________ I bet the human brain is a kludge. -- Marvin Minsky
Charles,
This is a bit off topic, but I'm sure someone here has opinions to share...
I'm looking for carpeting for the area outside of a machine room that won't cause the "shuffle your feet and shock yourself" phenomenon. I noticed most datacenters I've seen are carpeted up to the entrance without any ESD problems. Is there special "anti-ESD" carpet? Where might I find it?
There is some UK folklore that if you rub fairy liquid (though I guess any washing-up liquid will do) into carpet-tiles they lose the above attribute. Alternatively you can get carpet tiles which are conductive for this purpose (I think they have small amounts of metalized fibres woven in). Don't know where from. -- Alex Bligh GX Networks (formerly Xara Networks)
---Reply on mail from Charles Sprickman about Carpet?
I'm looking for carpeting for the area outside of a machine room that won't cause the "shuffle your feet and shock yourself" phenomenon. I noticed most datacenters I've seen are carpeted up to the entrance without any ESD problems. Is there special "anti-ESD" carpet? Where might I find it?
And for the Datacenter on a budget, diluted fabric softner (like downy) also works.. Put it in a spray bottle, and mist it over the carpet... If you dont dilute it, it will make a mess :) Not as effective as some other stuff (like real anti-static carpet, or grounding people at the entrance or ...) but a whole lot cheaper and quicker to install in many cases -- Bret McDanel http://www.rehost.com Realistic Technologies, Inc. 973-514-1144 These opinions are mine, and may not be the same as my employer
participants (11)
-
Alex Bligh -
alex＠nac.net -
Bret McDanel -
Charles Sprickman -
dirk＠power.net -
James McKenzie -
Phil Howard -
Roeland M.J. Meyer -
Stephen Stuart -
Steven J. Sobol -
Tim Pozar