Corporations becoming a LIR
Nanog: I work as the Network Architect for a multinational corporation, Ball Corporation (http://www.ball.com). Currently, we hold a Class B network, 162.18.0.0/16 and have been multi-homed in the past, and will be multi-homed in the future, and have our own AS. The network is very large, as we've used this addressing internally for our facilities in North America and Canada. We've allocated over 220 subnets. We now have a European division, Ball-Europe (http://www.ball-europe.com <http://www.ball-europe.com/> ). They have RFC 1918 addressing internally, and have the usual problems with NAT and overload addressing. I'm starting the process of filling out an application to register the company, based in Ratingen, DE with RIPE as a Local Internet Registry (LIR) so that we can request a /18 (or /17 if we can get one) for the 40 some production facilities of Ball-Europe, each of which will come across a VPN network and be presented in one block to the ISP uplinks. I was wondering, basically, if I have any chance at this? While RIPE clearly states the admission policy is open to any organization, in order to get PIR (Provider Independent routing) being a RIPE NCC is required, and I don't know if a corporation would have a shot. Currently, we are not an ARIN member, but hold the Class B. The corporation exists in 6 EU nations, and I can demonstrate the requirement for >2048 individual IP addresses. I realize this the NORTH AMERICAN Network operator group, and most of you deal with ARIN, but I thought some members might have experience in this area as well. Thanks in advance.
Hi!
I was wondering, basically, if I have any chance at this? While RIPE clearly states the admission policy is open to any organization, in order to get PIR (Provider Independent routing) being a RIPE NCC is required, and I don't know if a corporation would have a shot. Currently, we are not an ARIN member, but hold the Class B.
The corporation exists in 6 EU nations, and I can demonstrate the requirement for >2048 individual IP addresses.
I realize this the NORTH AMERICAN Network operator group, and most of you deal with ARIN, but I thought some members might have experience in this area as well.
Why not use that /16 for the 2K you need ? Would be a wast eof space to request a new /17 of /18 ?? Bye, Raymond.
On Thu, 06 May 2004 16:02:53 MDT, "Drumm, Dan" writes:
I'm starting the process of filling out an application to register the company, based in Ratingen, DE with RIPE as a Local Internet Registry (LIR) so that we can request a /18 (or /17 if we can get one) for the 40 some production facilities of Ball-Europe, each of which will come across a VPN network and be presented in one block to the ISP uplinks.
Why not just talk to an established LIR, and request the addresses through them? Since you won't hand out addresses to customers I don't see the need for you to become a LIR yourself, you just need PI address space. As a plus that would probably cost you less than becoming a RIPE member yourself. cheers, &rw -- -- "The Internet is so big, so powerful and pointless -- that for some people it is a complete substitute -- for life." - Andrew Brown
On 07.05.2004 00:02 Drumm, Dan wrote:
I was wondering, basically, if I have any chance at this? While RIPE clearly states the admission policy is open to any organization, in order to get PIR (Provider Independent routing) being a RIPE NCC is required, and I don't know if a corporation would have a shot. Currently, we are not an ARIN member, but hold the Class B.
There are a lot of companies not being ISP in an even larger sense which are LIR. Just to name a few: SAP, Siemens, Bayer, Commerzbank, ... have a look at http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/mem-services/general/indices/index.html IIRC in early days there was even an own category "Companies" with more moderate fee. If you nee help let me know, Arnold -- AN45-RIPE
Hi Dan, On May 7, 2004, at 12:02 am, Drumm, Dan wrote: [...]
We now have a European division, Ball-Europe (http://www.ball-europe.com). They have RFC 1918 addressing internally, and have the usual problems with NAT and overload addressing.
I’m starting the process of filling out an application to register the company, based in Ratingen, DE with RIPE as a Local Internet Registry (LIR) so that we can request a /18 (or /17 if we can get one) for the 40 some production facilities of Ball-Europe, each of which will come across a VPN network and be presented in one block to the ISP uplinks.
I was wondering, basically, if I have any chance at this? While RIPE clearly states the admission policy is open to any organization, in order to get PIR (Provider Independent routing) being a RIPE NCC is required, and I don’t know if a corporation would have a shot. Currently, we are not an ARIN member, but hold the Class B.
There's no problem with you becoming and LIR and requesting address space from us. Membership is open to everyone and we'll be happy to help you out. If you want to discuss anything then let me know and we can have a chat on the telephone.
The corporation exists in 6 EU nations, and I can demonstrate the requirement for >2048 individual IP addresses.
In fact, the RIPE community removed the requirement to demonstrate usage of existing address space when it lowered the minimum allocation to /21. We expect to update the IPv4 policy document when the two policies in Last Call status have reached consensus (or not) from our community. Best regards, -- leo vegoda Registration Services Manager RIPE NCC
Hi Leo, I find the information under the individual LIR entries interesting. For example, I looked under CN (China) and found 14 European LIRs. I couldn't find any explanation for the "serviced areas" field in the LIR refbook -- what exactly does it mean? In this particular case, it could not mean that the entities are providing IR services to Chinese operators for local production needs. Nor would it be possible for these entities to provide IR services to non-Chinese operators for local use, with the (still unlikely I think) exception of the LIRs' own internal enterprise networks (e.g., Siemens provisioning its own CN corporate network). Could they be servicing Chinese network operators seeking to break into Europe? No such operators exist, except perhaps the few telcos that are already APNIC members and handle their own needs. Maybe the "serviced areas" field is simply one of those questions that means "whatever the applicant thinks it means," i.e., it's technically meaningless (each respondent would have to independently translate it into terms that are meaningful to others)? Some clarification here would be much appreciated! Tom On May 7, 2004, at 3:00 AM, leo vegoda wrote:
Hi Dan,
On May 7, 2004, at 12:02 am, Drumm, Dan wrote:
[...]
We now have a European division, Ball-Europe (http://www.ball-europe.com). They have RFC 1918 addressing internally, and have the usual problems with NAT and overload addressing.
I’m starting the process of filling out an application to register the company, based in Ratingen, DE with RIPE as a Local Internet Registry (LIR) so that we can request a /18 (or /17 if we can get one) for the 40 some production facilities of Ball-Europe, each of which will come across a VPN network and be presented in one block to the ISP uplinks.
I was wondering, basically, if I have any chance at this? While RIPE clearly states the admission policy is open to any organization, in order to get PIR (Provider Independent routing) being a RIPE NCC is required, and I don’t know if a corporation would have a shot. Currently, we are not an ARIN member, but hold the Class B.
There's no problem with you becoming and LIR and requesting address space from us. Membership is open to everyone and we'll be happy to help you out. If you want to discuss anything then let me know and we can have a chat on the telephone.
The corporation exists in 6 EU nations, and I can demonstrate the requirement for >2048 individual IP addresses.
In fact, the RIPE community removed the requirement to demonstrate usage of existing address space when it lowered the minimum allocation to /21. We expect to update the IPv4 policy document when the two policies in Last Call status have reached consensus (or not) from our community.
Best regards,
-- leo vegoda Registration Services Manager RIPE NCC
participants (6)
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Arnold Nipper -
Drumm, Dan -
leo vegoda -
Raymond Dijkxhoorn -
Robert Waldner -
Tom Vest