Deployments of Provider Backbone Bridging (PBB)
Hello folks, Based on data I've gathered through quantitative and qualitative surveying, I can detect no application of Provider Backbone Bridging (MAC-in-MAC). Please bear with me while I clarify that I am not enquiring about Provider Bridging (QinQ). I would like to ask specifically about knowledge of deployments of PBB. If anyone would care to share data points, on- or off-list, I would love to know about them. I am open to anything on the subject of PBB's adoption that you are free to share with me. I am bound by GDPR and will anonymize any data that is not open for public disclosure. Thank you! Etienne -- Ing. Etienne-Victor Depasquale
I've had two private replies, both of which suggest that PBB has little to no share in the overall pie of the aggregation technology space, nor in the overall pie of the core technology space. However, a third correspondent states that Bard (Google's "Chat-based AI tool") claims that PBB is deployed by AT&T, Verizon, China Mobile, Deutsche Telecom and Comcast. This correspondent warns that Bard "could be hallucinating" :) Any further data points/insight would be appreciated. Cheers, Etienne On Wed, Aug 23, 2023 at 10:43 AM Etienne-Victor Depasquale <edepa@ieee.org> wrote:
Hello folks,
Based on data I've gathered through quantitative and qualitative surveying, I can detect no application of Provider Backbone Bridging (MAC-in-MAC). Please bear with me while I clarify that I am not enquiring about Provider Bridging (QinQ).
I would like to ask specifically about knowledge of deployments of PBB. If anyone would care to share data points, on- or off-list, I would love to know about them. I am open to anything on the subject of PBB's adoption that you are free to share with me. I am bound by GDPR and will anonymize any data that is not open for public disclosure.
Thank you!
Etienne
-- Ing. Etienne-Victor Depasquale
-- Ing. Etienne-Victor Depasquale
hey,
I've had two private replies, both of which suggest that PBB has little to no share in the overall pie of the aggregation technology space, nor in the overall pie of the core technology space.
However, a third correspondent states that Bard (Google's "Chat-based AI tool") claims that PBB is deployed by AT&T, Verizon, China Mobile, Deutsche Telecom and Comcast. This correspondent warns that Bard "could be hallucinating" :)
AFAIK this reflects the reality very well. There are huge PBB deployments in very large networks but the overall number of networks, using PBB, is very low. Even in those networks PBB is/will be phased out so don't expect any new deployments. It is still well supported by the vendors who initially invested into PBB. -- tarko
On 8/25/23 09:41, Tarko Tikan wrote:
AFAIK this reflects the reality very well. There are huge PBB deployments in very large networks but the overall number of networks, using PBB, is very low. Even in those networks PBB is/will be phased out so don't expect any new deployments. It is still well supported by the vendors who initially invested into PBB.
Most operators, especially of small-to-medium size scope, but even some larger ones, will go from 802.1Q to Q-in-Q, and then to MPLS. MPLS end-to-end is not as common as MPLS combined with 802.1Q or Q-in-Q, in my very rough anecdotal experience. This is mostly due to cost control, as well as a seemingly common preference to have a so-called Internet Gateway (IGW) pinning all those pseudowires. There have been ramblings of VXLAN as an IP-based underlay in lieu of MPLS. I don't know how well it has scaled outside of the data centre, i.e., in the Metro-E network. But the rate at which I hear about VXLAN for Metro-E deployments is also the same rate at which I don't hear about VXLAN for Metro-E deployments. In other words, it appears to be neither here nor there. Mark.
Hi Etienne, Those replies are accurate. There are still some large PBB deployments since once you deploy technologies it’s hard to change. However, there haven’t really been new PBB deployments in many years now. Vendors are also not developing the features to support it any more. I would consider it a dead technology at this point. There is L2 PBB and flavors of PBB-VPLS and PBB-EVPN, PBB-VPLS was more widely deployed over MPLS than any other “PBB” technology. Thanks, Phil From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+bedard.phil=gmail.com@nanog.org> on behalf of Etienne-Victor Depasquale via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> Date: Friday, August 25, 2023 at 3:35 AM To: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: Deployments of Provider Backbone Bridging (PBB) I've had two private replies, both of which suggest that PBB has little to no share in the overall pie of the aggregation technology space, nor in the overall pie of the core technology space. However, a third correspondent states that Bard (Google's "Chat-based AI tool") claims that PBB is deployed by AT&T, Verizon, China Mobile, Deutsche Telecom and Comcast. This correspondent warns that Bard "could be hallucinating" :) Any further data points/insight would be appreciated. Cheers, Etienne On Wed, Aug 23, 2023 at 10:43 AM Etienne-Victor Depasquale <edepa@ieee.org<mailto:edepa@ieee.org>> wrote: Hello folks, Based on data I've gathered through quantitative and qualitative surveying, I can detect no application of Provider Backbone Bridging (MAC-in-MAC). Please bear with me while I clarify that I am not enquiring about Provider Bridging (QinQ). I would like to ask specifically about knowledge of deployments of PBB. If anyone would care to share data points, on- or off-list, I would love to know about them. I am open to anything on the subject of PBB's adoption that you are free to share with me. I am bound by GDPR and will anonymize any data that is not open for public disclosure. Thank you! Etienne -- Ing. Etienne-Victor Depasquale -- Ing. Etienne-Victor Depasquale
participants (4)
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Etienne-Victor Depasquale -
Mark Tinka -
Phil Bedard -
Tarko Tikan