On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:37 AM, Durand, Alain <alain_durand@cable.comcast.com> wrote:

[resending with more readable, apologies for the duplicate]

DS-lite can work both for fixed and wireless scenario, where you have a laptop/pda/smarphone/tablet that is only configured by the access network with IPv6 but want to access IPv4 content FROM IPv4 applications. This is the main difference between DS-lite and NAT64. NAT64

Agreed, DS-lite can be deployed in many environments. But, a 3GPP style mobile operators would have to be working under some very specific circumstances to choose DS-lite given that dual-stack features (IPv6 PDP before release 7 and dual-stack EPS bearer after release 8) have long been part of the standards and ecosystem without the need for DS-lite. But, honestly, i am trying to focus this thread on viable services that can be launched and supported today or the very near future with IPv6-only, not a religious war about technology selection.

requires all applications on the user device to be IPv6 compatible. Now, that may or may not be an issue. If you are talking about a proprietary wireless device that run only proprietary apps, porting all those apps to IPv6 prior to launching the service may be ok... However, if the device can run external apps, like those coming from an app store, or running pre-existing apps (I’m thinking about the gazillions apps existing on the iPhone), then a NAT64 solution will force a complete rewrite of every single one of those apps...

The purpose of me posting the video was to show that a casual internet user (majority of my customers) can have a normal user experience with an IPv6-only transport on today's network with today's software. No special configuration required or special software to install. Every part of the environment i demonstrated is stock off-the shelf that anyone can deploy today. I work in a mobile operator, i know the traffic profiles, and I won't be scared by FUD about billions of apps that power-users may be using. I am not saying you are pushing FUD, but i bet you are familiar with some folks that do push FUD citing indefinite support for IPv4 apps on cell phones. Nonetheless, I will have a service plan to meet their needs for native dual-stack. Smart-phones generally have a life span of less than 2-3 years, and i am not focused on legacy support. IPv4 is not going away soon, i want to talk about new products and services. My question to the community is regarding the viability of specific service for casual Internet user to have web and email via an IPv6-only network. Web and email is the vast majority of my traffic, and maybe yours too. Beyond web and email (supported by NAT64), with an IPv6-only native service i can offer the customer true end-to-end IPv6 which may spur a watershed of innovation in the application and content space that is currently hobbled by NAT and will be further hobbled by CGN (including NAT64). I say this because as a network operator with CGN already in place, the more traffic i can shift to innovative end-to-end IPv6 flows the more money i save in CGN costs.

DS-lite would enable all those apps to keep working. Big difference.

If a user needs dual stack in a 3GPP network, i have the technology to do that today within today's 3GPP specs. Software is deployed, I just need market demand (or more likely supply side push from IPv6). I don't need yet another tunnel or piece of host software, it works today. Also, a big difference. But, that's just my scenario. DS-lite will work great and make sense in many environments. - Cameron

  - Alain.