Floor drains are good. But once again, you need to have a chat with your designer & inspector about what, why, when. Anti-backflow valves, and floor sink traps are mandatory. Automatic trap primers seem to lead to flooding. For example, St. Louis County recently opened a new jail. However it was delayed three months because the week before opening when they discovered if all the toilets were flushed at the same time on the eighth floor, as prisoners are known to do, the sinks exploded on the bottom floor. The plumbing designer had followed normal industry practice for commercial buildings, but forgot jails house a user population that is different from a normal commercial building.
Hmmmm...reminiscent of a NANOG meeting?
Like most disasters, you may not be able to prevent flooding, but you can mitigate some of its affects. Hit the E.P.O. and unfurl the plastic tarps you have stored & handy for just this emergency.
Good point. After one flood from upper-story firefighting, the US Senate Computer Center did something along these lines I haven't seen elsewhere but wasn't a bad idea. They got some large rolls of plastic, and mounted the rolls on bars suspended from the ceiling -- sort of like giant toilet paper rolls. The leading edges of the rolls were folded over a strip of wood, and a rope tied to that. In the event of a fire/flood alarm, the operators could grab a handle at the end of the rope, and pull the plastic sheet over the top of equipment in under a minute. Far faster than unfolding tarps.
Putting equipment on high, rather than low, floors can protect it.
Pick your disaster scenario, low-flying airplanes or high-flowing water.
How about a lost Forest Service water bomber? No statistics available, but I would suspect water flowing down is far more common than airplanes flowing down.
I wonder if any of the TEMPEST manuals have been declassified? THey never were at a terribly high level, and had some very nice general engineering in them.
Not yet. Although I've been trying to figure out how to buy the old MCAUTO (McDonnell-Douglas Automation) Data Center and turn it in to the Mid-West high-tech co-location space. In addition to a three-story, multi-football field long data center, and a backup power plant a small city would envy, it is rumored to have so-called black-project rooms with TEMPEST/EMP/EMF/RFI/TLA... shielding. InterNIC and PSI could co-locate in the same building, and not run into each other even in the parking lot.
Is there a place that would be good for Fleming?
I've only seen one cafeterria in the building, so that could be a problem :-).
This may be the same data center that Bob Courtney, the retired security chief for IBM, talked about when he told the story of the Rustproof 360/195 in A Large Unnamed Aerospace Company in St. Louis. Apparently, they had a 195, a supercomputer for the time, in a magnificent computer room. Fire protection up the wazoo. Every kind of power and grounding anyone could think of. What no one did think of was that there were two paint shops in the same building, and the paint tanks were in one of them, with piping to the other. Guess what the overhead pipes ran over. Late one night, a pipe blew and dumped several hundred gallons of zinc chromate primer into the CPU cabinet. The resulting hardened mass gave new meaning to the term, "solid state." Moral: check for hazardous materials elsewhere in the building, and materials that might not be hazardous to people but will do the nasty to equipment.
Greetings, We have a similar set up down here at a research station in Antarctica. Due to interesting environmental conditions and the fact that the NOC is in an original metal building built by the Navy in the late 1950's, we get leaks when it gets warm enough in the summer to melt the snow accumulation on the roof, it then finds spaces between the bolts that hold the roof to the metal i-beams that provide the roof structure. We then get minor rain storm in the NOC as the water comes through the false ceiling. We have been trying for a few years to get it fixed (lack of funding, asbestos problems, etc.) so we have a plastic tarp and roller system we devised - it works - ugly as hell, but we don't have water raining into the router anymore :) Chris At 00:58 1998-03-23 -0500, Howard C. Berkowitz wrote:
Floor drains are good. But once again, you need to have a chat with your designer & inspector about what, why, when. Anti-backflow valves, and floor sink traps are mandatory. Automatic trap primers seem to lead to flooding. For example, St. Louis County recently opened a new jail. However it was delayed three months because the week before opening when they discovered if all the toilets were flushed at the same time on the eighth floor, as prisoners are known to do, the sinks exploded on the bottom floor. The plumbing designer had followed normal industry practice for commercial buildings, but forgot jails house a user population that is different from a normal commercial building.
Hmmmm...reminiscent of a NANOG meeting?
Like most disasters, you may not be able to prevent flooding, but you can mitigate some of its affects. Hit the E.P.O. and unfurl the plastic tarps you have stored & handy for just this emergency.
Good point. After one flood from upper-story firefighting, the US Senate Computer Center did something along these lines I haven't seen elsewhere but wasn't a bad idea. They got some large rolls of plastic, and mounted the rolls on bars suspended from the ceiling -- sort of like giant toilet paper rolls. The leading edges of the rolls were folded over a strip of wood, and a rope tied to that. In the event of a fire/flood alarm, the operators could grab a handle at the end of the rope, and pull the plastic sheet over the top of equipment in under a minute. Far faster than unfolding tarps.
Putting equipment on high, rather than low, floors can protect it.
Pick your disaster scenario, low-flying airplanes or high-flowing water.
How about a lost Forest Service water bomber?
No statistics available, but I would suspect water flowing down is far more common than airplanes flowing down.
I wonder if any of the TEMPEST manuals have been declassified? THey never were at a terribly high level, and had some very nice general engineering in them.
Not yet. Although I've been trying to figure out how to buy the old MCAUTO (McDonnell-Douglas Automation) Data Center and turn it in to the Mid-West high-tech co-location space. In addition to a three-story, multi-football field long data center, and a backup power plant a small
city would envy, it is rumored to have so-called black-project rooms with TEMPEST/EMP/EMF/RFI/TLA... shielding. InterNIC and PSI could co-locate in the same building, and not run into each other even in the parking lot.
Is there a place that would be good for Fleming?
I've only seen one cafeterria in the building, so that could be a problem :-).
This may be the same data center that Bob Courtney, the retired security chief for IBM, talked about when he told the story of the Rustproof 360/195 in A Large Unnamed Aerospace Company in St. Louis.
Apparently, they had a 195, a supercomputer for the time, in a magnificent computer room. Fire protection up the wazoo. Every kind of power and grounding anyone could think of.
What no one did think of was that there were two paint shops in the same building, and the paint tanks were in one of them, with piping to the other. Guess what the overhead pipes ran over.
Late one night, a pipe blew and dumped several hundred gallons of zinc chromate primer into the CPU cabinet. The resulting hardened mass gave new meaning to the term, "solid state."
Moral: check for hazardous materials elsewhere in the building, and materials that might not be hazardous to people but will do the nasty to equipment.
Christopher D. Liljenstolpe, Principal Engineer, Internetworking Technologies worldwide solutions, inc. - business solutions through technology <mailto:cds@wwsi.com>mailto:cds@wwsi.com <http://www.wwsi.com/>http://www.wwsi.com tel:+1 303 581 0800 fax: +1 303 530 0191 4450 Arapahoe Ave, Suite 100, Boulder, CO 80303, US
participants (2)
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Chris Liljenstolpe -
Howard C. Berkowitz