Re: Keynote/Boardwatch Internet Backbone Index A better test!!!
From: Ben Black <black@zen.cypher.net> To: Jack Rickard <jack.rickard@boardwatch.com> Cc: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: Keynote/Boardwatch Internet Backbone Index A better test!!! Date: Friday, June 27, 1997 7:00 PM
i see, so i am to understand you wish us to simply *trust* that your results are valid based on vague references to your methodology?
hey everyone, i have just completed a study that indicates in some circumstances a 28.8 modem is faster than a DS-3! no details at this time, but i swear it is all true!
On Fri, 27 Jun 1997, Jack Rickard wrote:
Mr. Black:
That is not precisely true. How do you KNOW that the STUDY gives no details, when you can't have possibly SEEN the study YET. You don't
Am I corresponding with an adult here? I have absolutely no interest in whether you 'trust me" or not. And I'm not asking for anyone to trust me. It's an absurd notion and it would never occur to me to posit it. We put the full report in both the directory and the magazine. You just haven't seen it yet. We haven't shipped the copies yet. We haven't mailed them. It's 40 PAGES OF GRAPHS and explanation. It's NOT a secret. It's NOT hidden. It is VERY MUCH subject to comment and criticism. But you sure have a lot of comments and criticisms, for someone who hasn't seen it YET. You WILL see it. You're WELCOME to see it. I WANT you to see it. I'm a publisher if you'll recall. But the point is that you haven't seen it yet. Your 28.8/DS-3 analogy is infantile beyond words. Grow up. Jack RIckard =================================================================== Jack Rickard Boardwatch Magazine Editor/Publisher 8500 West Bowles Ave., Ste. 210 jack.rickard@boardwatch.com Littleton, CO 80123 www.boardwatch.com Voice: (303)973-6038 =================================================================== ---------- think
my logic is flawed. You don't know but snippets of what the logic IS. You don't like what you see of a summary sliver of the results from a PRESS RELEASE.
Jack Rickard
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From: Ben Black <black@zen.cypher.net> To: Jack Rickard <jack.rickard@boardwatch.com> Cc: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: Keynote/Boardwatch Internet Backbone Index A better test!!! Date: Friday, June 27, 1997 3:53 PM
the "study" gives no details on the systems used, where they were, who provided net connectivity...far from scientific. the sort of thing one would expect from marketeers.
and just because overall system performance affects web downloads, does that mean web downloads can be used to accurately and meaningfully measure overall system performance? i think your logic is flawed.
the net is not a big BBS, in case you haven't heard.
On Fri, 27 Jun 1997, Jack Rickard wrote:
I'm not a marketing droid. But only a moron would think that overall performance would NOT affect the download of a web page, which is essentially what you are attempting to say.
There are certainly other ways to do it. Approximately Internet User Population raised to Internet User Population worth.
Jack RIckard
=================================================================== Jack Rickard Boardwatch Magazine Editor/Publisher 8500 West Bowles Ave., Ste. 210 jack.rickard@boardwatch.com Littleton, CO 80123 www.boardwatch.com Voice: (303)973-6038 ===================================================================
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From: Ben Black <black@zen.cypher.net> To: Craig A. Huegen <c-huegen@quadrunner.com> Cc: Jack Rickard <jack.rickard@boardwatch.com>; Peter Cole <Peter.Cole@telescan.com>; nanog@merit.edu; marketing@keynote.com Subject: Re: Keynote/Boardwatch Internet Backbone Index A better test!!! Date: Friday, June 27, 1997 2:28 PM
for an exmple of somewhat more complete and better designed benchmarks of
this type:
http://www.inversenet.com/about/backgrounder.html#2
note that they understand the numerous factors that contribute to overall
performance. only a marketing droid could think downloading 50k worth of
web pages is somehow an indicator of overall performance.
b3n
On Fri, 27 Jun 1997, Jack Rickard wrote:
Am I corresponding with an adult here?
I have absolutely no interest in whether you 'trust me" or not. And I'm not asking for anyone to trust me. It's an absurd notion and it would never occur to me to posit it. We put the full report in both the directory and the magazine. You just haven't seen it yet. We haven't shipped the copies yet. We haven't mailed them. It's 40 PAGES OF GRAPHS and explanation. It's NOT a secret. It's NOT hidden. It is VERY MUCH subject to comment and criticism. But you sure have a lot of comments and
we are commenting and critizing based on the infromation provided. if that information is incomplete or misleading, that is entirely your fault, not ours. based on the statements made here by numerous members of the operations staff of ISPs it seems likely that i am not alone in thinking: 1) the information released thus far on this report is disturbingly misleading, and 2) you have absolutely no network engineering knowledge.
criticisms, for someone who hasn't seen it YET. You WILL see it. You're WELCOME to see it. I WANT you to see it. I'm a publisher if you'll recall. But the point is that you haven't seen it yet. Your 28.8/DS-3 analogy is infantile beyond words. Grow up.
more insults and no content. i sense a pattern.
Jack RIckard
=================================================================== Jack Rickard Boardwatch Magazine Editor/Publisher 8500 West Bowles Ave., Ste. 210 jack.rickard@boardwatch.com Littleton, CO 80123 www.boardwatch.com Voice: (303)973-6038 ===================================================================
From: Ben Black <black@zen.cypher.net> To: Jack Rickard <jack.rickard@boardwatch.com> Cc: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: Keynote/Boardwatch Internet Backbone Index A better test!!! Date: Friday, June 27, 1997 7:00 PM
i see, so i am to understand you wish us to simply *trust* that your results are valid based on vague references to your methodology?
hey everyone, i have just completed a study that indicates in some circumstances a 28.8 modem is faster than a DS-3! no details at this time, but i swear it is all true!
On Fri, 27 Jun 1997, Jack Rickard wrote:
Mr. Black:
That is not precisely true. How do you KNOW that the STUDY gives no details, when you can't have possibly SEEN the study YET. You don't
---------- think
my logic is flawed. You don't know but snippets of what the logic IS. You don't like what you see of a summary sliver of the results from a PRESS RELEASE.
Jack Rickard
----------
From: Ben Black <black@zen.cypher.net> To: Jack Rickard <jack.rickard@boardwatch.com> Cc: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: Keynote/Boardwatch Internet Backbone Index A better test!!! Date: Friday, June 27, 1997 3:53 PM
the "study" gives no details on the systems used, where they were, who provided net connectivity...far from scientific. the sort of thing one would expect from marketeers.
and just because overall system performance affects web downloads, does that mean web downloads can be used to accurately and meaningfully measure overall system performance? i think your logic is flawed.
the net is not a big BBS, in case you haven't heard.
On Fri, 27 Jun 1997, Jack Rickard wrote:
I'm not a marketing droid. But only a moron would think that overall performance would NOT affect the download of a web page, which is essentially what you are attempting to say.
There are certainly other ways to do it. Approximately Internet User Population raised to Internet User Population worth.
Jack RIckard
=================================================================== Jack Rickard Boardwatch Magazine Editor/Publisher 8500 West Bowles Ave., Ste. 210 jack.rickard@boardwatch.com Littleton, CO 80123 www.boardwatch.com Voice: (303)973-6038 ===================================================================
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From: Ben Black <black@zen.cypher.net> To: Craig A. Huegen <c-huegen@quadrunner.com> Cc: Jack Rickard <jack.rickard@boardwatch.com>; Peter Cole <Peter.Cole@telescan.com>; nanog@merit.edu; marketing@keynote.com Subject: Re: Keynote/Boardwatch Internet Backbone Index A better test!!! Date: Friday, June 27, 1997 2:28 PM
for an exmple of somewhat more complete and better designed benchmarks of
this type:
http://www.inversenet.com/about/backgrounder.html#2
note that they understand the numerous factors that contribute to overall
performance. only a marketing droid could think downloading 50k worth of
web pages is somehow an indicator of overall performance.
b3n
participants (2)
-
Ben Black -
Jack Rickard