Re: [Re: This may be stupid but.. ]
"Peter Galbavy" <peter.galbavy@knowtion.net> wrote:
A willingness, nay - a NEED, to learn and be open to new concepts is what forward moving technology sectors (like ours I hope) need.
definately - however, i know of some very smart people, with a huge drive to learn, were relegated to clueless tasks because they didn't have many many years of experience. there is a distrubing trend amongst managers/etc where they think that if you haven't already done the job for several years, you can't learn to do it, or don't have the skill to do it. i am not saying that this is universal (as demonstrated by several posts here to that effect), but i think that these are exceptions
Acronyms mean sh*t. When involved in any hiring process, I actively avoid CCIE/MSCE/etc. laden resumes. Mentioning once, fine. Using them like religious phrases is an indictation of, well, stupidity.
certifications are often necessary to open the door - granted if you were architecting internetworks when many of today's certified 'engineers' were still in grade school, then no, certifications are probably not needed. experience is a catch-22, you need experience to get a job, but you need a job to get experience. i am not saying that certifications are a panacea, but lacking the ability to say that i built $major_isp, my certs have helped me (a little) in getting past the recruiter/hr to where my technical skills can be demonstrated
i'm recruiter-proof. i'm not sure i'd want anyone who wasn't.
Aye. I have *never* used my CV/Resume in getting a job. I still have one, but it's very out of date.
never is a long time perhaps it is just the fact that i am 'new' to the field, but my resume has gotten me all but one job, and my resume indirectly got me that one. my slightly bitter $0.02 /joshua
Peter
"Walk with me through the Universe, And along the way see how all of us are Connected. Feast the eyes of your Soul, On the Love that abounds. In all places at once, seemingly endless, Like your own existence." - Stephen Hawking -
Hey folks, can you please stop the CC'ing of people that have responded to this thread. Just reply to NANOG. On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 11:36:50AM -0500, joshua sahala wrote:
"Peter Galbavy" <peter.galbavy@knowtion.net> wrote:
A willingness, nay - a NEED, to learn and be open to new concepts is what forward moving technology sectors (like ours I hope) need.
definately - however, i know of some very smart people, with a huge drive to learn, were relegated to clueless tasks because they didn't have many many years of experience. there is a distrubing trend amongst managers/etc where they think that if you haven't already done the job for several years, you can't learn to do it, or don't have the skill to do it. i am not saying that this is universal (as demonstrated by several posts here to that effect), but i think that these are exceptions
Acronyms mean sh*t. When involved in any hiring process, I actively avoid CCIE/MSCE/etc. laden resumes. Mentioning once, fine. Using them like religious phrases is an indictation of, well, stupidity.
certifications are often necessary to open the door - granted if you were architecting internetworks when many of today's certified 'engineers' were still in grade school, then no, certifications are probably not needed.
experience is a catch-22, you need experience to get a job, but you need a job to get experience. i am not saying that certifications are a panacea, but lacking the ability to say that i built $major_isp, my certs have helped me (a little) in getting past the recruiter/hr to where my technical skills can be demonstrated
i'm recruiter-proof. i'm not sure i'd want anyone who wasn't.
Aye. I have *never* used my CV/Resume in getting a job. I still have one, but it's very out of date.
never is a long time
perhaps it is just the fact that i am 'new' to the field, but my resume has gotten me all but one job, and my resume indirectly got me that one.
my slightly bitter $0.02
/joshua
Peter
"Walk with me through the Universe, And along the way see how all of us are Connected. Feast the eyes of your Soul, On the Love that abounds. In all places at once, seemingly endless, Like your own existence." - Stephen Hawking -
John Brown (CV) writes on 11/10/2003 11:43 AM:
Hey folks, can you please stop the CC'ing of people that have responded to this thread. Just reply to NANOG.
Sure thing.
To: joshua sahala <joshua.ej.smith@usa.net> Cc: Peter Galbavy <peter.galbavy@knowtion.net>, Richard Irving <rirving@onecall.net>, Eric Brunner-Williams in Portland Maine <brunner@nic-naa.net>, Vadim Antonov <avg@kotovnik.com>, "Nanog List (E-mail)" <nanog@merit.edu> Subject: stop the CC'ing Re: [Re: This may be stupid but.. ]
Ironic, isn't it? -- srs (postmaster|suresh)@outblaze.com // gpg : EDEDEFB9 manager, outblaze.com security and antispam operations
Hey folks, can you please stop the CC'ing of people that have responded to this thread. Just reply to NANOG.
procmail is your friend # ---------------------------------------------------------- # # prevent dupes # :0 Wh: msgid.lock | formail -D 65536 msgid.cache # # ----------------------------------------------------------
FYI, The job posting that I put on the list is old. I meant it only as an example. It was filled in late 2002. Thanks for the interest, Doug Luce Telerama Internet
On Mon, 2003-11-10 at 11:36, joshua sahala wrote:
"Peter Galbavy" <peter.galbavy@knowtion.net> wrote:
Acronyms mean sh*t. When involved in any hiring process, I actively avoid CCIE/MSCE/etc. laden resumes. Mentioning once, fine. Using them like religious phrases is an indictation of, well, stupidity.
certifications are often necessary to open the door - granted if you were architecting internetworks when many of today's certified 'engineers' were still in grade school, then no, certifications are probably not needed.
I consider myself one of the 'old guys' and all the experience in the world doesn't mean &%*$&%*$ to a recruiter OR a company hiring manager if you don't have the magic initials they've heard about behind your name. I was always too busy doing my 'real job' making the customers happy so I never spent time getting 'useless' certifications or developing networking relationships with other professionals for later use. Those of you with jobs, be very careful not to be lured into that trap. You've got to think of your future first and foremost. No one else will. Tim McKee
i'm recruiter-proof. i'm not sure i'd want anyone who wasn't.
Aye. I have *never* used my CV/Resume in getting a job. I still have one, but it's very out of date.
never is a long time
perhaps it is just the fact that i am 'new' to the field, but my resume has gotten me all but one job, and my resume indirectly got me that one.
my slightly bitter $0.02
/joshua
Peter
"Walk with me through the Universe, And along the way see how all of us are Connected. Feast the eyes of your Soul, On the Love that abounds. In all places at once, seemingly endless, Like your own existence." - Stephen Hawking -
-- Timothy R. McKee <tim@baseworx.net>
participants (6)
-
Doug Luce -
John Brown (CV) -
joshua sahala -
Randy Bush -
Suresh Ramasubramanian -
Timothy R. McKee