Re: ISPs blocking port 53? (was Re: Annoying dynamic DNS updates)
whats disturbing is how many contact addresses for both whois and AS#'s bounce
sure, i agree, that's disturbing. however, it's a different problem than having mail get ignored or ignorebotted and then depref'd so low that nobody even bothers to call you or let you know whether a human ever say the message. when it's a spammer then i can understand that there might be money lost if the isp disco's them. that's evil and rude, but i understand it. when it's unwanted packet-level traffic, though, there is no revenue stream to be protected by the simple expedient of ignoring complaints -- ddos'ers do not pay for their outgo. what's happening in this case is simply that there isn't enough staff to deal with every issue that affects outside complainers. it turns out that this lack scales nicely, creating the same lack elsewhere, due to competitive pressure, general apathy toward whole classes of problems, and so forth. branding program. we need a branding program. is there still an isp consortium in existence or did they all just die like cix? we need a "better netkeeping seal of approval" stamp before the worseness goes through its next geometric progression.
Also you have a new generation of ISPs (just like when "crackers" grow up and stop there is a new generation to replace them). A lot of ISPs just came off of having everything outsourced (e.g. excite@home) a little over 1.5 to 2 years ago. A lot of them took the entire ISP management in-house, but without any formal or over-time (experience) training. This just means that they came off of a much larger management organization (I'm sure that has its over loaded problems as well, but not as big as 90% less clue++ staff) to only a couple or a few individuals. I know this doesn't scale because I have been there and watched it happen. If someone isn't there with ISP experience probably most of the Abuse issues (especially via email) would continue to be ignored. Noone wants to handle that stuff. But someone(s) must handle that stuff. --- Alan Spicer (a_spicer@bellsouth.net) Systems and Network Administration, and Telecommunications ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Vixie" <paul@vix.com> To: <nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 3:34 AM Subject: Re: ISPs blocking port 53? (was Re: Annoying dynamic DNS updates)
whats disturbing is how many contact addresses for both whois and AS#'s bounce
sure, i agree, that's disturbing. however, it's a different problem than having mail get ignored or ignorebotted and then depref'd so low that
even bothers to call you or let you know whether a human ever say the message.
when it's a spammer then i can understand that there might be money lost if the isp disco's them. that's evil and rude, but i understand it.
when it's unwanted packet-level traffic, though, there is no revenue stream to be protected by the simple expedient of ignoring complaints -- ddos'ers do not pay for their outgo. what's happening in this case is simply that
isn't enough staff to deal with every issue that affects outside complainers.
it turns out that this lack scales nicely, creating the same lack elsewhere, due to competitive pressure, general apathy toward whole classes of
nobody there problems,
and so forth.
branding program. we need a branding program. is there still an isp consortium in existence or did they all just die like cix? we need a "better netkeeping seal of approval" stamp before the worseness goes through its next geometric progression.
participants (2)
-
Alan Spicer -
Paul Vixie