Just interested in other peoples experience to companies offering alternatives to SmartNet? Pros/Cons/Tradeoffs? We currently have a mix of SmartNet and internal parts supply. John __ John Macleod Alentus UK Limited Seymour House South Street Bromley BR1 1RH +44 (0)208 315 5800 +44 (0)208 315 5801 fax alentus.co.uk | alentus.com "Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail This e-mail (and/or any attachment) contains information, which is confidential and intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy, distribute or use it for any purpose or disclose the contents to any person. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender. The information contained in this e-mail (and any attachments) is supplied in good faith, but the sender shall not be under any liability in damages or otherwise for any reliance that may be placed upon it by the recipient, nor does it constitute a contract in any way. Any comments or opinions expressed are those of the originator not of Alentus Corporation unless otherwise expressly stated."
Cisco is making noises that they'll eventually be restricting software access to ONLY those devices which have an active SmartNet contract associated to your CCO account. I don't know where this currently stands, and it sure will be a huge pain in my rear if/when it happens. On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 1:41 PM, John Macleod <JMacleod@alentus.com> wrote:
Just interested in other peoples experience to companies offering alternatives to SmartNet?
Pros/Cons/Tradeoffs?
We currently have a mix of SmartNet and internal parts supply.
John
__ John Macleod Alentus UK Limited Seymour House South Street Bromley BR1 1RH +44 (0)208 315 5800 +44 (0)208 315 5801 fax alentus.co.uk | alentus.com
"Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
This e-mail (and/or any attachment) contains information, which is confidential and intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy, distribute or use it for any purpose or disclose the contents to any person. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender. The information contained in this e-mail (and any attachments) is supplied in good faith, but the sender shall not be under any liability in damages or otherwise for any reliance that may be placed upon it by the recipient, nor does it constitute a contract in any way. Any comments or opinions expressed are those of the originator not of Alentus Corporation unless otherwise expressly stated."
On 2/11/2011 16:26, Michael Loftis wrote:
Cisco is making noises that they'll eventually be restricting software access to ONLY those devices which have an active SmartNet contract associated to your CCO account. I don't know where this currently stands, and it sure will be a huge pain in my rear if/when it happens.
They do this now. Unless the device type is under listed smartnet, you can't download software for it. -- Bryan Fields 727-409-1194 - Voice 727-214-2508 - Fax http://bryanfields.net
This is one of the reasons we are starting to look at Juniper for a new network build. It is my understanding we set software updates for life for free. Cheers Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Michael Loftis [mailto:mloftis@wgops.com] Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:27 PM To: John Macleod Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: SmartNet Alternatives Cisco is making noises that they'll eventually be restricting software access to ONLY those devices which have an active SmartNet contract associated to your CCO account. I don't know where this currently stands, and it sure will be a huge pain in my rear if/when it happens. On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 1:41 PM, John Macleod <JMacleod@alentus.com> wrote:
Just interested in other peoples experience to companies offering alternatives to SmartNet?
Pros/Cons/Tradeoffs?
We currently have a mix of SmartNet and internal parts supply.
John
__ John Macleod Alentus UK Limited Seymour House South Street Bromley BR1 1RH +44 (0)208 315 5800 +44 (0)208 315 5801 fax alentus.co.uk | alentus.com
"Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
This e-mail (and/or any attachment) contains information, which is confidential and intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy, distribute or use it for any purpose or disclose the contents to any person. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender. The information contained in this e-mail (and any attachments) is supplied in good faith, but the sender shall not be under any liability in damages or otherwise for any reliance that may be placed upon it by the recipient, nor does it constitute a contract in any way. Any comments or opinions expressed are those of the originator not of Alentus Corporation unless otherwise expressly stated."
Sometimes you have to pick your battles. I'm sure there's a number cruncher somewhere telling Cisco this is a good idea. Let's see how the real world reacts though....
Subject: RE: SmartNet Alternatives Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 13:33:32 -0800 From: ryan.finnesey@HarrierInvestments.com To: nanog@nanog.org CC: JMacleod@alentus.com
This is one of the reasons we are starting to look at Juniper for a new network build. It is my understanding we set software updates for life for free. Cheers Ryan
-----Original Message----- From: Michael Loftis [mailto:mloftis@wgops.com] Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:27 PM To: John Macleod Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: SmartNet Alternatives
Cisco is making noises that they'll eventually be restricting software access to ONLY those devices which have an active SmartNet contract associated to your CCO account. I don't know where this currently stands, and it sure will be a huge pain in my rear if/when it happens.
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 1:41 PM, John Macleod <JMacleod@alentus.com> wrote:
Just interested in other peoples experience to companies offering alternatives to SmartNet?
Pros/Cons/Tradeoffs?
We currently have a mix of SmartNet and internal parts supply.
John
__ John Macleod Alentus UK Limited Seymour House South Street Bromley BR1 1RH +44 (0)208 315 5800 +44 (0)208 315 5801 fax alentus.co.uk | alentus.com
"Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
This e-mail (and/or any attachment) contains information, which is confidential and intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy, distribute or use it for any purpose or disclose the contents to any person. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender. The information contained in this e-mail (and any attachments) is supplied in good faith, but the sender shall not be under any liability in damages or otherwise for any reliance that may be placed upon it by the recipient, nor does it constitute a contract in any way. Any comments or opinions expressed are those of the originator not of Alentus Corporation unless otherwise expressly stated."
Interesting Question... And do they consider the JUNOS included a separate item? Or can it happily be sold with the hardware. Juniper will have a couple of years before it has to worry about a refurb market like Cisco has - especially in volume. ...Skeeve -- Skeeve Stevens, CEO eintellego Pty Ltd - The Networking Specialists skeeve@eintellego.net / www.eintellego.net Phone: 1300 753 383, Fax: (+612) 8572 9954 Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 / skype://skeeve www.linkedin.com/in/skeeve ; facebook.com/eintellego -- eintellego - The Experts that the Experts call - Juniper - HP Networking - Cisco - Brocade - Arista - Allied Telesis -----Original Message----- From: Seth Mattinen <sethm@rollernet.us> Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 12:49:24 +1100 To: "nanog@nanog.org" <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: SmartNet Alternatives
On 2/12/2011 13:33, Ryan Finnesey wrote:
This is one of the reasons we are starting to look at Juniper for a new network build. It is my understanding we set software updates for life for free. Cheers Ryan
How does Juniper feel about used hardware?
~Seth
How does Juniper feel about used hardware?
~Seth
I love Juniper's hardware and software, and support. However, the way they deal with used or second hand hardware is terrible. It is not possible to transfer ownership at all. You can not resell anything, and hope to get any software updates or support. The challenge is that Cisco refurb with SmartNet is generally considerably cheaper than new Juniper. It makes it tough to sell Juniper in many situations. We have the same problem with NetApp. It seems that these companies would rather see their equipment end up in a landfill, and have the secondary market turn to a different vendor, rather than being responsible, and making it possible for equipment to be reused instead of trashed. It really annoys me. Disclaimer: I am a Juniper and NetApp partner/reseller, and love their stuff. I just hate their policies. -Randy
Can anybody point to dependable analysis of the performance credentials on "green" (CO2/carbon neutral, recycling, etc) and financial cost recovery of the Internet vendors such Juniper and Cisco et al? The story emerging here is not looking very encouraging. Christian On 13 Feb 2011, at 21:54, Randy Carpenter wrote:
How does Juniper feel about used hardware?
~Seth
I love Juniper's hardware and software, and support. However, the way they deal with used or second hand hardware is terrible. It is not possible to transfer ownership at all. You can not resell anything, and hope to get any software updates or support. The challenge is that Cisco refurb with SmartNet is generally considerably cheaper than new Juniper. It makes it tough to sell Juniper in many situations. We have the same problem with NetApp. It seems that these companies would rather see their equipment end up in a landfill, and have the secondary market turn to a different vendor, rather than being responsible, and making it possible for equipment to be reused instead of trashed. It really annoys me.
Disclaimer: I am a Juniper and NetApp partner/reseller, and love their stuff. I just hate their policies.
-Randy
* Ryan Finnesey:
This is one of the reasons we are starting to look at Juniper for a new network build. It is my understanding we set software updates for life for free.
My understanding is that it's free for customers who have a service contract in place. Most downloads are not self-service, and I haven't tested if you can get JTAC to provide images for devices you don't own.
* Ryan Finnesey:
This is one of the reasons we are starting to look at Juniper for a new network build. It is my understanding we set software updates for life for free.
My understanding is that it's free for customers who have a service contract in place. Most downloads are not self-service, and I haven't tested if you can get JTAC to provide images for devices you don't own.
Brocade is now offering 5 years (what they consider lifetime) support to the original purchaser of the equipment on some product lines: FastIron SX800, SX1600, CX, WS, and TurboIron that includes software updates. We use a lot of the FCX units.
I know NHR has a alternative that looks to be comparable. http://www.networkhardware.com/Maintenance/ -tb
I've used NHR for a number of deployments over the past couple of years and they are a fantastic organisation to work with. I've used them for maintenance support in the US for replacement of parts - highly recommended. ----- Original Message ----- From: tbraning@gmail.com Sent: Tue, February 15, 2011, 11:04 PM Subject: Re: SmartNet Alternatives I know NHR has a alternative that looks to be comparable. http://www.networkhardware.com/Maintenance/ -tb
I've used them as well and they have been pretty good with gear that's common place. Just be careful if you get off the beaten path and are using gear like an IAD-2431-16FXS. They can help you with the hardware side on that kind of stuff but not so much with the software. Richey -----Original Message----- From: Neil J. McRae [mailto:neil@domino.org] Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 4:56 AM To: gbonser@seven.com; tbraning@gmail.com Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: SmartNet Alternatives I've used NHR for a number of deployments over the past couple of years and they are a fantastic organisation to work with. I've used them for maintenance support in the US for replacement of parts - highly recommended. ----- Original Message ----- From: tbraning@gmail.com Sent: Tue, February 15, 2011, 11:04 PM Subject: Re: SmartNet Alternatives I know NHR has a alternative that looks to be comparable. http://www.networkhardware.com/Maintenance/ -tb
At least for the FCX line we were told when trying to open a support case that the limited lifetime warranty only applies to hardware and does not make you eligible for any kind of support or software beyond getting hardware replaced. -----Original Message----- From: George Bonser [mailto:gbonser@seven.com] Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 15:59 To: Florian Weimer; Ryan Finnesey Cc: nanog@nanog.org; John Macleod Subject: RE: SmartNet Alternatives
* Ryan Finnesey:
This is one of the reasons we are starting to look at Juniper for a new network build. It is my understanding we set software updates for life for free.
My understanding is that it's free for customers who have a service contract in place. Most downloads are not self-service, and I haven't tested if you can get JTAC to provide images for devices you don't own.
Brocade is now offering 5 years (what they consider lifetime) support to the original purchaser of the equipment on some product lines: FastIron SX800, SX1600, CX, WS, and TurboIron that includes software updates. We use a lot of the FCX units.
At least for the FCX line we were told when trying to open a support case that the limited lifetime warranty only applies to hardware and does not make you eligible for any kind of support or software beyond getting hardware replaced.
Yeah, you need to buy "phone support" if you want that. It is the lowest level of support and still pretty inexpensive compared to other vendors. In other words, 5 years of free hardware support and 5 years of Remote "phone" support (under $300/year I think) isn't bad when compared to annual support costs for other gear in that class.
Started a few weeks ago for us. ...Skeeve -- Skeeve Stevens, CEO eintellego Pty Ltd - The Networking Specialists skeeve@eintellego.net / www.eintellego.net Phone: 1300 753 383, Fax: (+612) 8572 9954 Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 / skype://skeeve www.linkedin.com/in/skeeve ; facebook.com/eintellego -- eintellego - The Experts that the Experts call - Juniper - HP Networking - Cisco - Brocade - Arista - Allied Telesis -----Original Message----- From: Michael Loftis <mloftis@wgops.com> Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 08:26:56 +1100 To: John Macleod <JMacleod@alentus.com> Cc: "nanog@nanog.org" <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: SmartNet Alternatives
Cisco is making noises that they'll eventually be restricting software access to ONLY those devices which have an active SmartNet contract associated to your CCO account. I don't know where this currently stands, and it sure will be a huge pain in my rear if/when it happens.
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 1:41 PM, John Macleod <JMacleod@alentus.com> wrote:
Just interested in other peoples experience to companies offering alternatives to SmartNet?
Pros/Cons/Tradeoffs?
We currently have a mix of SmartNet and internal parts supply.
John
__ John Macleod Alentus UK Limited Seymour House South Street Bromley BR1 1RH +44 (0)208 315 5800 +44 (0)208 315 5801 fax alentus.co.uk | alentus.com
"Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
This e-mail (and/or any attachment) contains information, which is confidential and intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy, distribute or use it for any purpose or disclose the contents to any person. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender. The information contained in this e-mail (and any attachments) is supplied in good faith, but the sender shall not be under any liability in damages or otherwise for any reliance that may be placed upon it by the recipient, nor does it constitute a contract in any way. Any comments or opinions expressed are those of the originator not of Alentus Corporation unless otherwise expressly stated."
If only Cisco would sell "software only" support. 3rd party smartNet alternatives are nice for parts replacement. They suck for support, imho, especially, when it comes down to declaring a problem to be a bug. On quite a few occasions I found bugs in IOS and TAC submitted those as bugs and fixed them reasonably fast. Andrey On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 3:41 PM, John Macleod <JMacleod@alentus.com> wrote:
Just interested in other peoples experience to companies offering alternatives to SmartNet?
Pros/Cons/Tradeoffs?
We currently have a mix of SmartNet and internal parts supply.
John
__ John Macleod Alentus UK Limited Seymour House South Street Bromley BR1 1RH +44 (0)208 315 5800 +44 (0)208 315 5801 fax alentus.co.uk | alentus.com
"Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
This e-mail (and/or any attachment) contains information, which is confidential and intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy, distribute or use it for any purpose or disclose the contents to any person. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender. The information contained in this e-mail (and any attachments) is supplied in good faith, but the sender shall not be under any liability in damages or otherwise for any reliance that may be placed upon it by the recipient, nor does it constitute a contract in any way. Any comments or opinions expressed are those of the originator not of Alentus Corporation unless otherwise expressly stated."
-- Andrey Khomyakov [khomyakov.andrey@gmail.com]
On 2/11/2011 13:49, Andrey Khomyakov wrote:
If only Cisco would sell "software only" support. 3rd party smartNet alternatives are nice for parts replacement. They suck for support, imho, especially, when it comes down to declaring a problem to be a bug. On quite a few occasions I found bugs in IOS and TAC submitted those as bugs and fixed them reasonably fast.
I thought there already was a software-only smartnet option? ~Seth
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 04:49:55PM -0500, Andrey Khomyakov wrote:
If only Cisco would sell "software only" support.
They do. You might have to make your sales droid know that YOU know about it thought. :-) Order items were CON-SW-... in the past, not sure about today. Best regards, Daniel -- CLUE-RIPE -- Jabber: dr@cluenet.de -- dr@IRCnet -- PGP: 0xA85C8AA0
Different rules for different countries. Can't buy CON-SW from Australian distributors (I've tried 3), but I can buy it from the UK with support for Australia. ...Skeeve -- Skeeve Stevens, CEO eintellego Pty Ltd - The Networking Specialists skeeve@eintellego.net / www.eintellego.net Phone: 1300 753 383, Fax: (+612) 8572 9954 Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 / skype://skeeve www.linkedin.com/in/skeeve ; facebook.com/eintellego -- eintellego - The Experts that the Experts call - Juniper - HP Networking - Cisco - Brocade - Arista - Allied Telesis -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Roesen <dr@cluenet.de> Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 07:46:36 +1100 To: "nanog@nanog.org" <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: SmartNet Alternatives
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 04:49:55PM -0500, Andrey Khomyakov wrote:
If only Cisco would sell "software only" support.
They do. You might have to make your sales droid know that YOU know about it thought. :-)
Order items were CON-SW-... in the past, not sure about today.
Best regards, Daniel
-- CLUE-RIPE -- Jabber: dr@cluenet.de -- dr@IRCnet -- PGP: 0xA85C8AA0
participants (17)
-
Andrey Khomyakov -
Brandon Kim -
Bryan Fields -
Christian de Larrinaga -
Daniel Roesen -
Florian Weimer -
George Bonser -
John Macleod -
Michael Loftis -
Neil J. McRae -
Randy Carpenter -
Richey -
Ryan Finnesey -
Seth Mattinen -
Skeeve Stevens -
Todd Braning -
Voll, Toivo