That is one long protect path. Yikes. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 12:04 AM, <charles@knownelement.com> wrote:
That is one long protect path. Yikes.
There be mountains in the way, with deserts in between, and not a lot of people to justify diversity or railroads and highways to run it along. Not many carriers have more than one fiber route across Arizona and New Mexico, especially for the newer high-capacity fibers (i.e. built this millennium, after the financial excesses of the 90s.) I'm no longer current on what routes are being used by what carriers, but if you don't have two routes across northern Arizona ( I-10/I-40, with restoration routes like Barstow->LasVegas->Flagstaff->Phoenix), then the next alternative is Barstow->LasVegas->SaltLakeCity->Denver, at which point some carriers have routes down to Phoenix via Tucumcari or Amarillo, and the rest are going to go through Dallas, and anybody who doesn't have the LasVegas->SLC route is going to use Sacramento->SLC->Denver, possibly also including San Jose, depending on what routes they've got across California. So, yeah, instead of the nice short 2200-mile restoration routes you can use if SF->Seattle fails, cable cuts in the Southwest can be really long... -- ---- Thanks; Bill Note that this isn't my regular email account - It's still experimental so far. And Google probably logs and indexes everything you send it.
And in an open desert, back hoes can smell fiber from miles away. On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Bill Stewart <nonobvious@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 12:04 AM, <charles@knownelement.com> wrote:
That is one long protect path. Yikes.
There be mountains in the way, with deserts in between, and not a lot of people to justify diversity or railroads and highways to run it along. Not many carriers have more than one fiber route across Arizona and New Mexico, especially for the newer high-capacity fibers (i.e. built this millennium, after the financial excesses of the 90s.) I'm no longer current on what routes are being used by what carriers, but if you don't have two routes across northern Arizona ( I-10/I-40, with restoration routes like Barstow->LasVegas->Flagstaff->Phoenix), then the next alternative is Barstow->LasVegas->SaltLakeCity->Denver, at which point some carriers have routes down to Phoenix via Tucumcari or Amarillo, and the rest are going to go through Dallas, and anybody who doesn't have the LasVegas->SLC route is going to use Sacramento->SLC->Denver, possibly also including San Jose, depending on what routes they've got across California.
So, yeah, instead of the nice short 2200-mile restoration routes you can use if SF->Seattle fails, cable cuts in the Southwest can be really long... -- ---- Thanks; Bill
Note that this isn't my regular email account - It's still experimental so far. And Google probably logs and indexes everything you send it.
-- LITTLE GIRL: But which cookie will you eat FIRST? COOKIE MONSTER: Me think you have misconception of cookie-eating process.
Good point...so if the cut is in the middle of nowhere without easy access...then how the hell did it get cut? Malicious? Matt Simmons wrote: And in an open desert, back hoes can smell fiber from miles away. On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Bill Stewart [1]<nonobvious@gmail.com> wrote: On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 12:04 AM, [2]<charles@knownelement.com> wrote: That is one long protect path. Yikes. There be mountains in the way, with deserts in between, and not a lot of people to justify diversity or railroads and highways to run it along. Not many carriers have more than one fiber route across Arizona and New Mexico, especially for the newer high-capacity fibers (i.e. built this millennium, after the financial excesses of the 90s.) I'm no longer current on what routes are being used by what carriers, but if you don't have two routes across northern Arizona ( I-10/I-40, with restoration routes like Barstow->LasVegas->Flagstaff->Phoenix), then the next alternative is Barstow->LasVegas->SaltLakeCity->Denver, at which point some carriers have routes down to Phoenix via Tucumcari or Amarillo, and the rest are going to go through Dallas, and anybody who doesn't have the LasVegas->SLC route is going to use Sacramento->SLC->Denver, possibly also including San Jose, depending on what routes they've got across California. So, yeah, instead of the nice short 2200-mile restoration routes you can use if SF->Seattle fails, cable cuts in the Southwest can be really long... -- ---- Thanks; Bill Note that this isn't my regular email account - It's still experimental so far. And Google probably logs and indexes everything you send it. References 1. mailto:nonobvious@gmail.com 2. mailto:charles@knownelement.com
On Feb 2, 2010, at 6:36 PM, Bret Clark wrote:
Good point...so if the cut is in the middle of nowhere without easy access...then how the hell did it get cut? Malicious?
Some hikers were lost in the desert and tossed down some fiber, waiting for a backhoe to show up and save them, but it was confused by the scent of a much longer, juicier piece....
Matt Simmons wrote:
And in an open desert, back hoes can smell fiber from miles away.
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Bill Stewart [1]<nonobvious@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 12:04 AM, [2]<charles@knownelement.com> wrote:
That is one long protect path. Yikes.
There be mountains in the way, with deserts in between, and not a lot of people to justify diversity or railroads and highways to run it along. Not many carriers have more than one fiber route across Arizona and New Mexico, especially for the newer high-capacity fibers (i.e. built this millennium, after the financial excesses of the 90s.) I'm no longer current on what routes are being used by what carriers, but if you don't have two routes across northern Arizona ( I-10/I-40, with restoration routes like Barstow->LasVegas->Flagstaff->Phoenix), then the next alternative is Barstow->LasVegas->SaltLakeCity->Denver, at which point some carriers have routes down to Phoenix via Tucumcari or Amarillo, and the rest are going to go through Dallas, and anybody who doesn't have the LasVegas->SLC route is going to use Sacramento->SLC->Denver, possibly also including San Jose, depending on what routes they've got across California.
So, yeah, instead of the nice short 2200-mile restoration routes you can use if SF->Seattle fails, cable cuts in the Southwest can be really long... -- ---- Thanks; Bill
Note that this isn't my regular email account - It's still experimental so far. And Google probably logs and indexes everything you send it.
References
1. mailto:nonobvious@gmail.com 2. mailto:charles@knownelement.com
--Steve Bellovin, http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb
Cross-country Fibers very often follow existing utility rights of way. So even in a wide open desert, the places the fibers go are the "busy" spots. Sometimes its train tracks, sometimes its gas pipelines, sometimes its electric, sometimes it’s a road, but very rarely is fiber like that "on its own". So the cut was likely construction on whatever the fiber was near. The other option is that the fiber provider was actually doing maintenance (adding capacity, fixing a troubled strand) and did the damage themselves. -Scott -----Original Message----- From: Bret Clark [mailto:bclark@spectraaccess.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 6:37 PM To: nanog Subject: Re: Fiber Cut in CA? Good point...so if the cut is in the middle of nowhere without easy access...then how the hell did it get cut? Malicious? Matt Simmons wrote: And in an open desert, back hoes can smell fiber from miles away. On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Bill Stewart [1]<nonobvious@gmail.com> wrote: On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 12:04 AM, [2]<charles@knownelement.com> wrote: That is one long protect path. Yikes. There be mountains in the way, with deserts in between, and not a lot of people to justify diversity or railroads and highways to run it along. Not many carriers have more than one fiber route across Arizona and New Mexico, especially for the newer high-capacity fibers (i.e. built this millennium, after the financial excesses of the 90s.) I'm no longer current on what routes are being used by what carriers, but if you don't have two routes across northern Arizona ( I-10/I-40, with restoration routes like Barstow->LasVegas->Flagstaff->Phoenix), then the next alternative is Barstow->LasVegas->SaltLakeCity->Denver, at which point some carriers have routes down to Phoenix via Tucumcari or Amarillo, and the rest are going to go through Dallas, and anybody who doesn't have the LasVegas->SLC route is going to use Sacramento->SLC->Denver, possibly also including San Jose, depending on what routes they've got across California. So, yeah, instead of the nice short 2200-mile restoration routes you can use if SF->Seattle fails, cable cuts in the Southwest can be really long... -- ---- Thanks; Bill Note that this isn't my regular email account - It's still experimental so far. And Google probably logs and indexes everything you send it. References 1. mailto:nonobvious@gmail.com 2. mailto:charles@knownelement.com
I believe in this case the ticket mentions it was at the site of an "on-going water project". Contrary to what may seem logical to those not familiar with the area, the area out that way is loaded with very productive farm land and there are lots of aqueducts and irrigation. Mike On Tue, 2010-02-02 at 19:41 -0500, Scott Berkman wrote:
Cross-country Fibers very often follow existing utility rights of way. So even in a wide open desert, the places the fibers go are the "busy" spots. Sometimes its train tracks, sometimes its gas pipelines, sometimes its electric, sometimes it’s a road, but very rarely is fiber like that "on its own".
So the cut was likely construction on whatever the fiber was near. The other option is that the fiber provider was actually doing maintenance (adding capacity, fixing a troubled strand) and did the damage themselves.
-Scott
-- ************************************************************ Michael J. McCafferty Principal M5 Hosting http://www.m5hosting.com You can have your own custom Dedicated Server up and running today ! RedHat Enterprise, CentOS, Ubuntu, Debian, OpenBSD, FreeBSD, and more ************************************************************
This is actually in my service area. There is an on-going water construction project along Interstate 8 by the Kiewit Corporation, and other entities, which are working on the All American Canal Lining Project. http://www.iid.com/Water/AllAmericanCanalLiningProject http://www.kiewit.com/projects/water-resources/all-american-canal.aspx I drive by that area often and it is always very busy with workers and large machinery. -- Blake Covarrubias On Feb 2, 2010, at 6:02 PM, Michael J McCafferty wrote:
I believe in this case the ticket mentions it was at the site of an "on-going water project". Contrary to what may seem logical to those not familiar with the area, the area out that way is loaded with very productive farm land and there are lots of aqueducts and irrigation.
Mike
On Tue, 2010-02-02 at 19:41 -0500, Scott Berkman wrote:
Cross-country Fibers very often follow existing utility rights of way. So even in a wide open desert, the places the fibers go are the "busy" spots. Sometimes its train tracks, sometimes its gas pipelines, sometimes its electric, sometimes it’s a road, but very rarely is fiber like that "on its own".
So the cut was likely construction on whatever the fiber was near. The other option is that the fiber provider was actually doing maintenance (adding capacity, fixing a troubled strand) and did the damage themselves.
-Scott
-- ************************************************************ Michael J. McCafferty Principal M5 Hosting http://www.m5hosting.com
You can have your own custom Dedicated Server up and running today ! RedHat Enterprise, CentOS, Ubuntu, Debian, OpenBSD, FreeBSD, and more ************************************************************
participants (8)
-
Bill Stewart -
Blake Covarrubias -
Bret Clark -
charles＠knownelement.com -
Matt Simmons -
Michael J McCafferty -
Scott Berkman -
Steven Bellovin