Re: Quote from Kashpureff / Re: question about per. hack
I don't think that some kind of knee jerk reaction like blocking all addresses that have ever been associated with alternic is in order. Certainly Kashpureff has gone off the deep end, but am I the only one here who thinks that he is essentially fighting the good fight? I'm sick of paying the internic every year just for the privilege of participating in their name service. The centralized nature of the system is a real drag, and I'm hoping that some genius out there is working on the next generation that will allow anyone to associate their ip address with anything they want. I believe that the capitalist aspect of what the internic is doing; taking money for an essential service and trying to make a profit, is PURE EVIL and goes against everything that I belive "the net" should be. So although I don't particularly like they way that Kashpureff is staging his rebellion, I do believe in his cause. -mat ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ mathias kolehmainen + ripper@dataway.com (ripper@secretagent.bob) ninewood http://www.roomfullaspies.com/9wood public key http://www.roomfullaspies.com/pgpkey.asc
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Mathias K. wrote:
The centralized nature of the system is a real drag, and I'm hoping that some genius out there is working on the next generation that will allow anyone to associate their ip address with anything they want. I believe that the capitalist aspect of what the internic is doing; taking money for an essential service and trying to make a profit, is PURE EVIL and goes against everything that I belive "the net" should be. So although I don't particularly like they way that Kashpureff is staging his rebellion, I do believe in his cause.
I'm sick of paying the NIC to, and in reality I think Kashpureff's hack is pretty elegant. However, I disagree that capitalism is /pure evil/. Once upon a time the net was driven by research and academia, but that day has passed. The net as it stands now is in poor shape, and a with the latest intense round of backhoe attacks and DNS problems the enormous amount of capital invested in the internet will have to be protected. This is when those capitalist companies will finally start to hash out technologies that make the internet more redundandt. The problem and, I believe, the solution lies with the root name servers. Until people accept and use more than the current InterNIC root server we won't be able to announce any more domain name strategies. Aaron Abelard / aaron@abelard.com / http://www.abelard.com/ "Nunc Lento Sunito Dicunt, Moreris" (Donne) "Lasciate tutto speranza, voiche entrate" (Dante) "kinda like a cloud i was up way up in the sky" (NIN) "Once more unto the breech, dear friend" (Shakespeare)
At 03:32 PM 7/22/97 -0500, Aaron Abelard wrote:
I'm sick of paying the NIC to, and in reality I think Kashpureff's hack is
Sure, but if we went back to the "old way" where it was free to register a name, you'd have every AOLer getting bob34145.com and such.. -- -=TED=- O- JAPH tedt@colubs.com - work tedder@abcompsvc.com - home Link Rot: The process by which links on a web page become as obsolete as the sites they're connected to change location or die.
On Tue, Jul 22, 1997 at 01:44:20PM -0700, Ted Timmons wrote:
At 03:32 PM 7/22/97 -0500, Aaron Abelard wrote:
I'm sick of paying the NIC to, and in reality I think Kashpureff's hack is
Sure, but if we went back to the "old way" where it was free to register a name, you'd have every AOLer getting bob34145.com and such..
Now _that's_ not right at all. I think the excuse of charging a fee for something to discourage its use is ridiculous. Where exactly are these AOLers going to get primary and secondary name service? Web servers? Mail forwarders? -- = Christopher Masto = chris@netmonger.net = http://www.netmonger.net/ = = NetMonger Communications = finger for PGP key = $19.95/mo unlimited access = = Director of Operations = (516) 221-6664 = mailto:info@netmonger.net = v---(cut here)---v -- yourname@some.dumb.host.com "Keep in mind that anything Kibo says makes a great sig." -- Kibo ^---(cut here)---^
At 05:07 PM 7/22/97 -0400, Christopher Masto wrote:
Now _that's_ not right at all. I think the excuse of charging a fee for something to discourage its use is ridiculous. Where exactly are these AOLers going to get primary and secondary name service? Web servers? Mail forwarders?
With the latest free email, web pages, etc (juno, hotmail, geocities), it wouldn't take too long for someone to come up with free DNS, MXing, etc.. How would _you_ discourage registration? By not explaining it very well? That hasn't kept the idiots away from unix, Perl, etc... -- -=TED=- O- JAPH tedt@colubs.com - work tedder@abcompsvc.com - home Link Rot: The process by which links on a web page become as obsolete as the sites they're connected to change location or die.
On Tue, Jul 22, 1997 at 02:27:11PM -0700, Ted Timmons wrote:
At 05:07 PM 7/22/97 -0400, Christopher Masto wrote:
Now _that's_ not right at all. I think the excuse of charging a fee for something to discourage its use is ridiculous. Where exactly are these AOLers going to get primary and secondary name service? Web servers? Mail forwarders?
With the latest free email, web pages, etc (juno, hotmail, geocities), it wouldn't take too long for someone to come up with free DNS, MXing, etc..
How would _you_ discourage registration? By not explaining it very well? That hasn't kept the idiots away from unix, Perl, etc...
I _wouldn't_ discourage registration. That's the point. -- = Christopher Masto = chris@netmonger.net = http://www.netmonger.net/ = = NetMonger Communications = finger for PGP key = $19.95/mo unlimited access = = Director of Operations = (516) 221-6664 = mailto:info@netmonger.net = v---(cut here)---v -- yourname@some.dumb.host.com "Keep in mind that anything Kibo says makes a great sig." -- Kibo ^---(cut here)---^
At 05:32 PM 7/22/97 -0400, Christopher Masto wrote:
With the latest free email, web pages, etc (juno, hotmail, geocities), it wouldn't take too long for someone to come up with free DNS, MXing, etc..
I _wouldn't_ discourage registration. That's the point.
So exactly _how_ would you keep millions of people from registering domain names? Even if it _weren't_ free (I'll argue that another time), you'd still have tons of people (I'll generalize, and assume they're high school students that couldn't afford the $100) that would be signing up for domain registration because they're going though a cheap ISP. -- -=TED=- O- JAPH tedt@colubs.com - work tedder@abcompsvc.com - home Link Rot: The process by which links on a web page become as obsolete as the sites they're connected to change location or die.
On Tue, Jul 22, 1997 at 02:36:54PM -0700, Ted Timmons wrote:
At 05:32 PM 7/22/97 -0400, Christopher Masto wrote:
With the latest free email, web pages, etc (juno, hotmail, geocities), it wouldn't take too long for someone to come up with free DNS, MXing, etc..
I _wouldn't_ discourage registration. That's the point.
So exactly _how_ would you keep millions of people from registering domain names? Even if it _weren't_ free (I'll argue that another time), you'd still have tons of people (I'll generalize, and assume they're high school students that couldn't afford the $100) that would be signing up for domain registration because they're going though a cheap ISP.
Gee, the horror. Affordable Internet services. -- = Christopher Masto = chris@netmonger.net = http://www.netmonger.net/ = = NetMonger Communications = finger for PGP key = $19.95/mo unlimited access = = Director of Operations = (516) 221-6664 = mailto:info@netmonger.net = v---(cut here)---v -- yourname@some.dumb.host.com "Keep in mind that anything Kibo says makes a great sig." -- Kibo ^---(cut here)---^
Can we please dispense with the discussion of domain name services on the NANOG list? I would personally prefer that this discussion be taken elsewhere. Thanks, - paul At 03:32 PM 07/22/97 -0500, Aaron Abelard wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Mathias K. wrote:
The centralized nature of the system is a real drag, and I'm hoping that some genius out there is working on the next generation that will allow anyone to associate their ip address with anything they want. I believe that the capitalist aspect of what the internic is doing; taking money for an essential service and trying to make a profit, is PURE EVIL and goes against everything that I belive "the net" should be. So although I don't particularly like they way that Kashpureff is staging his rebellion, I do believe in his cause.
I'm sick of paying the NIC to, and in reality I think Kashpureff's hack is pretty elegant. However, I disagree that capitalism is /pure evil/. Once upon a time the net was driven by research and academia, but that day has passed. The net as it stands now is in poor shape, and a with the latest intense round of backhoe attacks and DNS problems the enormous amount of capital invested in the internet will have to be protected. This is when those capitalist companies will finally start to hash out technologies that make the internet more redundandt. The problem and, I believe, the solution lies with the root name servers. Until people accept and use more than the current InterNIC root server we won't be able to announce any more domain name strategies.
Aaron Abelard / aaron@abelard.com / http://www.abelard.com/ "Nunc Lento Sunito Dicunt, Moreris" (Donne) "Lasciate tutto speranza, voiche entrate" (Dante) "kinda like a cloud i was up way up in the sky" (NIN) "Once more unto the breech, dear friend" (Shakespeare)
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Paul Ferguson wrote:
Can we please dispense with the discussion of domain name services on the NANOG list? I would personally prefer that this discussion be taken elsewhere.
Sure. Can you or anyone else suggest a better list to take this discussion to? I can set one up if need be. Aaron Abelard / aaron@abelard.com / http://www.abelard.com/ "Nunc Lento Sunito Dicunt, Moreris" (Donne) "Lasciate tutto speranza, voiche entrate" (Dante) "kinda like a cloud i was up way up in the sky" (NIN) "Once more unto the breech, dear friend" (Shakespeare)
You'll find a selection of DNS mailing lists on Merit's "Resources for ISPs" page: http://www.merit.edu/ipma/docs/isp.html --Susan Harris On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Aaron Abelard wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Paul Ferguson wrote:
Can we please dispense with the discussion of domain name services on the NANOG list? I would personally prefer that this discussion be taken elsewhere.
Sure. Can you or anyone else suggest a better list to take this discussion to? I can set one up if need be.
Aaron Abelard / aaron@abelard.com / http://www.abelard.com/ "Nunc Lento Sunito Dicunt, Moreris" (Donne) "Lasciate tutto speranza, voiche entrate" (Dante) "kinda like a cloud i was up way up in the sky" (NIN) "Once more unto the breech, dear friend" (Shakespeare)
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Paul Ferguson wrote:
Can we please dispense with the discussion of domain name services on the NANOG list? I would personally prefer that this discussion be taken elsewhere.
Sure. Can you or anyone else suggest a better list to take this discussion to? I can set one up if need be.
Send your subscribe message to newdom-request@ar.com ******************************************************** Michael Dillon voice: +1-415-482-2840 Senior Systems Architect fax: +1-415-482-2844 PRIORI NETWORKS, INC. http://www.priori.net "The People You Know. The People You Trust." ********************************************************
You call the long-known and well-publisized attack against servers not running current versions of essential system software elegant? People, the net is not falling apart because Kashpureff knows how to fake a glue record; people who don't keep up with the security of their systems are (of course) having their security compromised. This is not an operational issue; this is a sysadmin-being-lazy issue. Please take it off NANOG. Stephen At 15:32 07-22-97 -0500, you wrote:
I'm sick of paying the NIC to, and in reality I think Kashpureff's hack is pretty elegant.
However, I disagree that capitalism is /pure evil/. Once
upon a time the net was driven by research and academia, but that day has passed. The net as it stands now is in poor shape, and a with the latest intense round of backhoe attacks and DNS problems the enormous amount of capital invested in the internet will have to be protected. This is when those capitalist companies will finally start to hash out technologies that make the internet more redundandt. The problem and, I believe, the solution lies with the root name servers. Until people accept and use more than the current InterNIC root server we won't be able to announce any more domain name strategies.
Aaron Abelard / aaron@abelard.com / http://www.abelard.com/ "Nunc Lento Sunito Dicunt, Moreris" (Donne) "Lasciate tutto speranza, voiche entrate" (Dante) "kinda like a cloud i was up way up in the sky" (NIN) "Once more unto the breech, dear friend" (Shakespeare)
-- Unsolicited commercial/propaganda email subject to legal action. Under US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), Sec.227(b)(1)(C), and Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a State may impose a fine of not less than $500 per message. Read the full text of Title 47 Sec 227 at http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/47/227.html
Earlier, Stephen Sprunk said:
People, the net is not falling apart because Kashpureff knows how to fake a glue record; people who don't keep up with the security of their systems are (of course) having their security compromised.
This is not an operational issue; this is a sysadmin-being-lazy issue. Please take it off NANOG.
So when red boxes are used on phones lines that are old enough for them to work, then the phone company should chalk it up to the fact that it CAN happen?? Compromising systems whether easily allowed or not is still illegal! -- -Myk Myk O'Leary (System Administrator) --> moleary@ironlight.com Ironlight Digital (Marketing/Design/Network) --> http://www.ironlight.com 222 Sutter Street 6th floor * San Francisco, CA 94108 * 415.646.7000 ------ FOR NETWORK PROBLEMS, WRITE TO tech-support@ironlight.com ------
At 04:06 PM 07/22/97 -0700, Myk O'Leary wrote:
So when red boxes are used on phones lines that are old enough for them to work, then the phone company should chalk it up to the fact that it CAN happen?? Compromising systems whether easily allowed or not is still illegal!
Okay, wise guy. ;-) As far as I'm concerned, this falls into the catch-all category of DNS security. Please see: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/dnssec-charter.html In any event, take it elsewhere. - paul
taking money for an essential service and trying to make a profit, is PURE EVIL and goes against everything that I belive "the net" should be.
Sure! Money, of course, is the root of all evil. I'm sure the Soviets could'a / would'a had a great, state run name service. You could get your domain registered while you wait in line for bread and toilet paper. Too bad that system failed! NSI does a good job at what they do, and 50 bucks a year really isn't much to whine about. Grow up Mr. Mathias. Profit is the only reason you have a job, food in your grocery store, and an Internet to complain about. -- Jesse "I'm Capitalist and I'm proud" Caulfield.
On Tue, Jul 22, 1997 at 04:40:31PM -0400, Jesse M. Caulfield wrote:
taking money for an essential service and trying to make a profit, is PURE EVIL and goes against everything that I belive "the net" should be.
Sure! Money, of course, is the root of all evil. I'm sure the Soviets could'a / would'a had a great, state run name service. You could get your domain registered while you wait in line for bread and toilet paper. Too bad that system failed!
NSI does a good job at what they do, and 50 bucks a year really isn't much to whine about.
I think most of us on this list are capitalists. The whole NSI/InterNIC situation is extremely weird. The real question is whence comes their authority. Particularly after their contract runs out. I don't think they should have been forced to operate at a loss, sans government funding. But the fees they chose are rather arbitrary, and 98 million dollars is a lot of money to operate a database. -- = Christopher Masto = chris@netmonger.net = http://www.netmonger.net/ = = NetMonger Communications = finger for PGP key = $19.95/mo unlimited access = = Director of Operations = (516) 221-6664 = mailto:info@netmonger.net = v---(cut here)---v -- yourname@some.dumb.host.com "Keep in mind that anything Kibo says makes a great sig." -- Kibo ^---(cut here)---^
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Jesse M. Caulfield wrote:
Sure! Money, of course, is the root of all evil. I'm sure the Soviets could'a / would'a had a great, state run name service. You could get your domain registered while you wait in line for bread and toilet paper. Too bad that system failed!
Yahoo. Our state granted monopoly on name service is so much better than anyone else's because of the wonders of _capitalism_. You tell 'im Jesse... -- Jim Wise jim.wise@turner.com
participants (11)
-
Aaron Abelard -
Christopher Masto -
Jesse M. Caulfield -
Jim Wise -
Mathias K. -
Michael Dillon -
moleary＠ironlight.com -
Paul Ferguson -
Stephen Sprunk -
Susan R. Harris -
Ted Timmons