This sounds like a good idea for us to consider. I think DoS attacks typically get erased in the 95% discard a lot of people use in billing though, but it still has value for the customer. Thanks! Jason -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Mark Kasten Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 5:35 PM To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: UUNet Offer New Protection Against DDoS We actually accept up to the customers aggregate. So if they have a /16, they can tag the whole /16. And we do not tag no-export. I saw some time ago on a list, and I think Bill Manning suggested it, that if you are getting bits for unused address space, to announce that address space (up to host specific) with the DDoS community string. That keeps the packets off of your link and thus you don't get charged for them. The same can be done in reverse. We have a customer that is advertising their larger block with the DDoS community string, and then advertising the addresses they are actually using more specifically, so we blackhole everything less specific. These are a couple of applications that can be utilized if you don't tag no-export and accept more than just /32's within their address space. FWIW. Also, we are utilizing Juniper's DCU for tracebacks, which makes life MUCH easier when tracing an attack. :-) SNMP polling the DCU counters every few minutes is relatively fast and painless, and provides quick results. Mark Lumenello, Jason wrote: Oh, and I strip their communities, and apply no-export, on the first term of my route map so the /32 does not get out. Of course my peer facing policy requires specific communities to get out as well (belt and suspenders). This method works very well, and you do not have to give up length restrictions or maintain two sets of customer prefix/access lists. Jason -----Original Message----- From: Lumenello, Jason Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:52 PM To: 'Stephen J. Wilcox'; james Cc: nanog@merit.edu Subject: RE: UUNet Offer New Protection Against DDoS I struggled with this, and came up with the following. We basically use a standard route-map for all customers where the first term looks for the community. The customer also has a prefix-list on their neighbor statement allowing their blocks le /32. The following terms (term 2 and above) in the route-map which do NOT look for the customer discard community, have a different standard/generic prefix-list evaluation which blocks cruft and permits 0.0.0.0/0 ge 8 le 24. By doing this, I only accept a customer /32 from his dedicated prefix-list when it has the DOS discard community, otherwise I catch them with the ge 8 le 24 in the following terms. Jason Lumenello IP Engineering XO Communications -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Stephen J. Wilcox Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 3:48 PM To: james Cc: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: UUNet Offer New Protection Against DDoS I'm puzzled by one aspect on the implementation.. how to build your customer prefix filters.. that is, we have prefix-lists for prefix and length. Therefore at present we can only accept a tagged route for a whole block.. not good if the announcement is a /16 etc ! Now, I could do as per the website at secsup.org which means we have a route-map entry to match the community before the filtering .. but that would allow the customer to null route any ip. What we need is one to allow them to announce any route including more specifics of the prefix list - how are folks doing this? Steve On Wed, 3 Mar 2004, james wrote: Global Crossing has this, already in production. I was on the phone with Qwest yesterday & this was one of this things I asked about. Qwest indicated they are going to deploy this shortly. (i.e., send routes tagged with a community which they will set to null) James Edwards Routing and Security jamesh@cybermesa.com At the Santa Fe Office: Internet at Cyber Mesa Store hours: 9-6 Monday through Friday 505-988-9200 SIP:1(747)669-1965