I should clarify. The "ADM trib" I'm referring to here is when the transmission gear (ADM) is located in the same facility as the routers and local loops are a non-issue. As for two local loops w/APS, one protecting the other, there are certainly precautions that can be taken to avoid a great deal of the problems that folks have shared here over the years, some obvious some not. But simply handing over another $100K for a second port, simply to protect against router failures, isn't always a sensible .. or viable option. -danny