It belonged to some Canadian ISP, I believe it was a cable company. Regarding the aggregation/deaggregation mess. This is due to the fact that ARIN is rather strict with IP assignements and how we route internally. Because ARIN wants us to use 80% of our ip blocks, before we can request new assignments from them we have to dole out addresses in /22's to each city we have, in order to use them up appropriately. Its been a bit of a nightmare trying to meet ARIN's policies and also try to meet the Internet Communities policies. Believe me, I would much rather advertise a /16 prefix out to the Internet, rather then a /22. We have not been able to accommodate this unfortunately. -----Original Message----- From: Jon Lewis [mailto:jlewis@lewis.org] Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:31 AM To: Sanfilippo, Ted Cc: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: SORBs On Wed, 6 Jul 2005, Sanfilippo, Ted wrote:
Does anyone know of an easier way to remove IP blocks from a blacklist? We received a /16 from ARIN in May and have been trying to get SORB's to remove the blacklist association on these addresses. They seem to take forever to remove the blacklist association.
--- 06Jul05 --- ASnum NetsNow NetsAggr NetGain % Gain Description AS15270 311 59 252 81.0% AS-PAETEC-NET - PaeTec.net -a division of PaeTecCommunications, Inc. Any chance of this deaggregation mess getting cleaned up? I've contacted sorbs on your behalf, assuming the /16 concerned is 63.138.0.0/16. This raises a question that interests me as someone who had to deal with recently bogon space last time I got ARIN space. 63/8 was assigned to ARIN in 1997. Much of it appears to have been assigned to ARIN members in the late 90s and very early 2000's. How did Paetec happen to get a /16 from 63/8 in 2005? Was this recently reclaimed from some defunct company (which could explain the sorbs dul listing), and Paetec just got lucky? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Lewis | I route Senior Network Engineer | therefore you are Atlantic Net | _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________
Sanfilippo, Ted wrote:
It belonged to some Canadian ISP, I believe it was a cable company.
Regarding the aggregation/deaggregation mess. This is due to the fact that ARIN is rather strict with IP assignements and how we route internally. Because ARIN wants us to use 80% of our ip blocks, before we can request new assignments from them we have to dole out addresses in /22's to each city we have, in order to use them up appropriately. Its been a bit of a nightmare trying to meet ARIN's policies and also try to meet the Internet Communities policies. Believe me, I would much rather advertise a /16 prefix out to the Internet, rather then a /22. We have not been able to accommodate this unfortunately.
Err... Why do you say you need to advertise a /22 for each city rather than the /16 for your entire network? What's inside your network and how you distribute your addresses there is not of concern for anyone outside of your network. Why don't you advertise the /16 via BGP and then let the IGP handle the /22 distribution to each city? -- Andre
Perhaps the networks are disconnected? Perhaps there is insufficient bandwidth between the cities to carry inter-city traffic? Sounds somewhat familiar to http://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2004_5.html On Wed, 6 Jul 2005, Andre Oppermann wrote:
Sanfilippo, Ted wrote:
It belonged to some Canadian ISP, I believe it was a cable company. Regarding the aggregation/deaggregation mess. This is due to the fact that ARIN is rather strict with IP assignements and how we route internally. Because ARIN wants us to use 80% of our ip blocks, before we can request new assignments from them we have to dole out addresses in /22's to each city we have, in order to use them up appropriately. Its been a bit of a nightmare trying to meet ARIN's policies and also try to meet the Internet Communities policies. Believe me, I would much rather advertise a /16 prefix out to the Internet, rather then a /22. We have not been able to accommodate this unfortunately.
Err... Why do you say you need to advertise a /22 for each city rather than the /16 for your entire network? What's inside your network and how you distribute your addresses there is not of concern for anyone outside of your network. Why don't you advertise the /16 via BGP and then let the IGP handle the /22 distribution to each city?
-- Alex Rubenstein, AR97, K2AHR, alex@nac.net, latency, Al Reuben Net Access Corporation, 800-NET-ME-36, http://www.nac.net
--- Alex Rubenstein <alex@nac.net> wrote:
Perhaps the networks are disconnected? Perhaps there is insufficient bandwidth between the cities to carry inter-city traffic?
So, why would GRE not be a reasonable (temporary) solution here? If the islands are going to remain disconnected long term, why not get additional AS numbers? I find blaming > 250 extra routes WITH EXACTLY THE SAME PATH INFO on ARIN pretty unconvincing... David Barak Need Geek Rock? Try The Franchise: http://www.listentothefranchise.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Perhaps the networks are disconnected? Perhaps there is insufficient bandwidth between the cities to carry inter-city traffic?
So, why would GRE not be a reasonable (temporary) solution here? If the islands are going to remain disconnected long term, why not get additional AS numbers?
I don't believe the fact of having multiple ASNs solves this issue, I believe ARIN looks at allocated space per OrgID.
I find blaming 250 extra routes WITH EXACTLY THE SAME PATH INFO on ARIN pretty unconvincing...
Personally, I (or my routers) don't have a problem -- at least at the moment. You could always filter. -- Alex Rubenstein, AR97, K2AHR, alex@nac.net, latency, Al Reuben Net Access Corporation, 800-NET-ME-36, http://www.nac.net
On Jul 6, 2005, at 6:51 PM, David Barak wrote:
Perhaps the networks are disconnected? Perhaps there is insufficient bandwidth between the cities to carry inter-city traffic?
So, why would GRE not be a reasonable (temporary) solution here? If the islands are going to remain disconnected long term, why not get additional AS numbers?
It is non-trivial to get additional ASNs, even if you are multi-homed in multiple sites. Doesn't mean it can't be done. But AS exhaustion is far more critical than IP exhaustion. (Or even RIB/FIB/proc exhaustion through additional prefixes, IMHO.) So if they want to be .. uh, well, a good 'Netizen and use one AS with static routes or defaults or something to route between them, that's better than a slew of ASes with the same prefix info we have today. -- TTFN, patrick
On Wed, 6 Jul 2005, Sanfilippo, Ted wrote:
Regarding the aggregation/deaggregation mess. This is due to the fact that ARIN is rather strict with IP assignements and how we route internally. Because ARIN wants us to use 80% of our ip blocks, before we can request new assignments from them we have to dole out addresses in /22's to each city we have, in order to use them up appropriately. Its been a bit of a
Are you saying you have POPs in dozens of cities and do not have your own network connecting them, but instead buy transit from verio, cogent, and at&t in each city and announce /22 subnets to them from each of these POPs using the same (15270) origin ASN with ASN loop detection disabled?
nightmare trying to meet ARIN's policies and also try to meet the Internet Communities policies. Believe me, I would much rather advertise a /16 prefix out to the Internet, rather then a /22. We have not been able to accommodate this unfortunately.
-----Original Message----- From: Jon Lewis [mailto:jlewis@lewis.org] Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:31 AM To: Sanfilippo, Ted Cc: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: SORBs
On Wed, 6 Jul 2005, Sanfilippo, Ted wrote:
Does anyone know of an easier way to remove IP blocks from a blacklist? We received a /16 from ARIN in May and have been trying to get SORB's to remove the blacklist association on these addresses. They seem to take forever to remove the blacklist association.
--- 06Jul05 --- ASnum NetsNow NetsAggr NetGain % Gain Description AS15270 311 59 252 81.0% AS-PAETEC-NET - PaeTec.net -a division of PaeTecCommunications, Inc.
Any chance of this deaggregation mess getting cleaned up?
I've contacted sorbs on your behalf, assuming the /16 concerned is 63.138.0.0/16. This raises a question that interests me as someone who had to deal with recently bogon space last time I got ARIN space.
63/8 was assigned to ARIN in 1997. Much of it appears to have been assigned to ARIN members in the late 90s and very early 2000's. How did Paetec happen to get a /16 from 63/8 in 2005? Was this recently reclaimed from some defunct company (which could explain the sorbs dul listing), and Paetec just got lucky?
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Lewis | I route Senior Network Engineer | therefore you are Atlantic Net | _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Lewis | I route Senior Network Engineer | therefore you are Atlantic Net | _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________
participants (6)
-
Alex Rubenstein -
Andre Oppermann -
David Barak -
Jon Lewis -
Patrick W. Gilmore -
Sanfilippo, Ted