Overlay broad patent on IPv6?
I was recently reading a few IPv6 patent, and happened upon on developed by Wesley E. George, Time Warner Cable Inc. on the topic of Use of dns information as trigger for dynamic ipv4 address allocation. It seems to impact the allocation of the IPv4 & IPv6 address for the gateway router, software defined consumer CPE, UPNP, CGN, content-based network, residential broadband networks; DSL networks; fiber-to-the-home (FTTH), fiber-to-the-node (FTTN), or fiber-to-the-curb (FTTC) networks; wireless Internet service providers (WISP)(fixed wireless to replace home broadband, typically in rural areas); or indeed to any situation with an on-demand IPv4 connection and dynamically assigned addressing. Am I reading this wrong? Has Time Warner patented all functions on the CPE? Joe Klein "Inveniam viam aut faciam"
http://www.google.com/patents/US20130254423 Sorry missed the link. Joe Klein "Inveniam viam aut faciam" On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 4:52 AM, Joe Klein <jsklein@gmail.com> wrote:
I was recently reading a few IPv6 patent, and happened upon on developed by Wesley E. George, Time Warner Cable Inc. on the topic of Use of dns information as trigger for dynamic ipv4 address allocation.
It seems to impact the allocation of the IPv4 & IPv6 address for the gateway router, software defined consumer CPE, UPNP, CGN, content-based network, residential broadband networks; DSL networks; fiber-to-the-home (FTTH), fiber-to-the-node (FTTN), or fiber-to-the-curb (FTTC) networks; wireless Internet service providers (WISP)(fixed wireless to replace home broadband, typically in rural areas); or indeed to any situation with an on-demand IPv4 connection and dynamically assigned addressing.
Am I reading this wrong? Has Time Warner patented all functions on the CPE?
Joe Klein "Inveniam viam aut faciam"
No 99% of the text is noise. Read the claims and notice the limitations: the patent is about a CPE with IPv6 without IPv4 that somehow acquires IPv4 as soon something does a DNS lookup that results in a reply without AAAA. It is a stupid idea if you ask me, so the patent is worthless. Regards, Baldur
Hi,
It is a stupid idea if you ask me,
..and thus, based on most of the current technology patents out there, perfectly patentable. dont worry, the rest of the internet will probably need something like this in the future... and whats happened here is some coffee-room tech chat or water cooler propeller-head conversation got captured and written-up by some over-zealous manager/techie combo to ensure that the world cant do something obvious later when needed (its probably not obvious to most people righ tnow as we havent even bothered looking at it...but if we did then it would probably be an obvious method and first one out of the wash). when it means is that most of those ISPs that do a captive portal answer for failed DNS responses are going to be violating this patent if the query was for IPv6 and didnt get an answer..... ;-) alan
In article <CAP032TteiL3=k=vs-KEdGU276fWGXqn1J9jmORLq8sW4xPE-Wg@mail.gmail.com> you write:
This is not a patent. It is a patent application. Most applications do not turn into patents, or at least not with all of the claims included. If you look at the claims, which are what matter, this is for a rather specific hack in a broadband router which assigns a v4 address on the fly when a DNS lookup from behind the router returns a result that suggests that v4 traffic will happen, presumably by returning an A record. I can't imagine how anyone would misread this as a patent on IPv6. R's, John
This is actually a good idea. Roll out an IPV6 only network and only pass out an IPV4 address if it's needed based on actual traffic. On Jul 13, 2015 11:27 AM, "John Levine" <johnl@iecc.com> wrote:
In article <CAP032TteiL3=k= vs-KEdGU276fWGXqn1J9jmORLq8sW4xPE-Wg@mail.gmail.com> you write:
This is not a patent. It is a patent application. Most applications do not turn into patents, or at least not with all of the claims included.
If you look at the claims, which are what matter, this is for a rather specific hack in a broadband router which assigns a v4 address on the fly when a DNS lookup from behind the router returns a result that suggests that v4 traffic will happen, presumably by returning an A record.
I can't imagine how anyone would misread this as a patent on IPv6.
R's, John
Too bad it won't actually work. I type Slashdot.org in my browser. The web browser does DNS lookup. The CPE notices there is only an A record available and boots the IPv4 stack. However there is no way to push an IPv4 configuration to my computer. DHCP is pull not push. Even if there was, the web browser would not be prepared for an IPv4 configuration to suddenly appear in the middle of a request. I notice the patent application does not actually specify how this is supposed to work. It should not be possible to patent without building a prototype and indeed without even knowing how to build one. Then if someone later figures out the details, you somehow owe your soul to these guys that just did some handwaving. Regards Baldur Den 13/07/2015 17.33 skrev "Shane Ronan" <shane@ronan-online.com>:
This is actually a good idea. Roll out an IPV6 only network and only pass out an IPV4 address if it's needed based on actual traffic. On Jul 13, 2015 11:27 AM, "John Levine" <johnl@iecc.com> wrote:
In article <CAP032TteiL3=k= vs-KEdGU276fWGXqn1J9jmORLq8sW4xPE-Wg@mail.gmail.com> you write:
This is not a patent. It is a patent application. Most applications do not turn into patents, or at least not with all of the claims included.
If you look at the claims, which are what matter, this is for a rather specific hack in a broadband router which assigns a v4 address on the fly when a DNS lookup from behind the router returns a result that suggests that v4 traffic will happen, presumably by returning an A record.
I can't imagine how anyone would misread this as a patent on IPv6.
R's, John
Balder, That may well be the subject of one of the other patents. Also, there is no requirement under US patent law to build a prototype. It just has to be possible for one "usually skilled in the art" to construct one from the content of the patent. Also, most patents are not for a complete system. They just describe the function of a single invention, possibly useful in a larger system. For example, consider the patent of a gravity escapement in a clock (No. 739,245. Pat. Sept 15, 1903. W. Willmann). The escapement is useless on its own, but has application in many mechanical clocks, including watches. So there's no requirement that the patent explain how IPv4 addresses are acquired by the client. -mel beckman
On Jul 13, 2015, at 8:58 AM, Baldur Norddahl <baldur.norddahl@gmail.com> wrote:
Too bad it won't actually work. I type Slashdot.org in my browser. The web browser does DNS lookup. The CPE notices there is only an A record available and boots the IPv4 stack. However there is no way to push an IPv4 configuration to my computer. DHCP is pull not push. Even if there was, the web browser would not be prepared for an IPv4 configuration to suddenly appear in the middle of a request.
I notice the patent application does not actually specify how this is supposed to work. It should not be possible to patent without building a prototype and indeed without even knowing how to build one. Then if someone later figures out the details, you somehow owe your soul to these guys that just did some handwaving.
Regards
Baldur Den 13/07/2015 17.33 skrev "Shane Ronan" <shane@ronan-online.com>:
This is actually a good idea. Roll out an IPV6 only network and only pass out an IPV4 address if it's needed based on actual traffic.
On Jul 13, 2015 11:27 AM, "John Levine" <johnl@iecc.com> wrote:
In article <CAP032TteiL3=k= vs-KEdGU276fWGXqn1J9jmORLq8sW4xPE-Wg@mail.gmail.com> you write:
This is not a patent. It is a patent application. Most applications do not turn into patents, or at least not with all of the claims included.
If you look at the claims, which are what matter, this is for a rather specific hack in a broadband router which assigns a v4 address on the fly when a DNS lookup from behind the router returns a result that suggests that v4 traffic will happen, presumably by returning an A record.
I can't imagine how anyone would misread this as a patent on IPv6.
R's, John
The CPE does the private IP space it traditionally does for the end user equipment. If a v4 address is needed, it is pushed from the provider to the CPE, where it does NAT. It doesn't need your Windows, Linux, Android box to support anything atypical. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Baldur Norddahl" <baldur.norddahl@gmail.com> To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Monday, July 13, 2015 10:54:49 AM Subject: Re: Overlay broad patent on IPv6? Too bad it won't actually work. I type Slashdot.org in my browser. The web browser does DNS lookup. The CPE notices there is only an A record available and boots the IPv4 stack. However there is no way to push an IPv4 configuration to my computer. DHCP is pull not push. Even if there was, the web browser would not be prepared for an IPv4 configuration to suddenly appear in the middle of a request. I notice the patent application does not actually specify how this is supposed to work. It should not be possible to patent without building a prototype and indeed without even knowing how to build one. Then if someone later figures out the details, you somehow owe your soul to these guys that just did some handwaving. Regards Baldur Den 13/07/2015 17.33 skrev "Shane Ronan" <shane@ronan-online.com>:
This is actually a good idea. Roll out an IPV6 only network and only pass out an IPV4 address if it's needed based on actual traffic. On Jul 13, 2015 11:27 AM, "John Levine" <johnl@iecc.com> wrote:
In article <CAP032TteiL3=k= vs-KEdGU276fWGXqn1J9jmORLq8sW4xPE-Wg@mail.gmail.com> you write:
This is not a patent. It is a patent application. Most applications do not turn into patents, or at least not with all of the claims included.
If you look at the claims, which are what matter, this is for a rather specific hack in a broadband router which assigns a v4 address on the fly when a DNS lookup from behind the router returns a result that suggests that v4 traffic will happen, presumably by returning an A record.
I can't imagine how anyone would misread this as a patent on IPv6.
R's, John
The point is you'd already have a 192 address or something, and it would only grab the external address for a short duration for use as an external PAT address, thus oversubscribing the ip4 pool to users who need it (based on dns). Its still pretty broken, but less broken than you describe. On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 8:55 AM, <A.L.M.Buxey@lboro.ac.uk> wrote:
Hi,
This is actually a good idea. Roll out an IPV6 only network and only pass out an IPV4 address if it's needed based on actual traffic.
yes...shame someones applied for a patent on that! ;-)
alan
participants (8)
-
A.L.M.Buxey＠lboro.ac.uk -
Baldur Norddahl -
Blake Dunlap -
Joe Klein -
John Levine -
Mel Beckman -
Mike Hammett -
Shane Ronan