Well, when dealing with this off-line, kindly include engineer@sprint.net, because quite frankly, *I* have no idea what you're talking about either. Perhaps it's too subtle for me. That kind of information is worth sharing so that both parties' shared customer is satisfied. (And perhaps this will be useful enough for people planning on multihoming between you and other providers than SprtintLink that it should be talked about in a more public forum with a view to helping people understand all the complicated issues involved in multihoming among several transit providing backbones.) Say, I wonder if this'll get me accused of unprofessionalism or disreputableness too? It's been a quiet week; nobody has ranted about me in far too long. Sean. - --
From list-admin@merit.edu Mon Oct 30 20:26:13 1995 X-Sender: briand@mail.fonorola.net Mime-Version: 1.0 To: nanog@merit.edu From: briand@fonorola.net (Brian Dickson) Subject: Re: Peering problem with NSP Cc: Matt Harrop <mharrop@interlog.com>, Nathan Stratton <nathan@netrail.net>, ericc@nds.istar.ca
On Mon, 30 Oct 1995, Matt Harrop wrote:
In a few months, the network I operate is going to become multi-homed. I've just ordered the T1 from SprintLink and I know that they'll have no problem with BGP4 peering, or with the fact that I'll be multi-homed. My problem is with my existing NSP; fONOROLA. When I informed that that I would be going multi-homed, and asked them about peering this was their answer:
Due to our high level of interconnectivity, we carry over 6k routes
backbone. Not all will be available to you. We can only assure you
t
connect routes will be offered, namely AS2493 & AS812. Transit ASes cannot be provided to you at this time on a guarenteed basis. If you use us as default, this is not a problem, but I suspect you will not. We have
on our that direc direct
connectivity to CA*net, Rogers, UUNET, WorldLinx, MCI, ANS, and cannot, at this time, ensure that all routes land on you. This kind of routing transit service is not really intended as our usual service offering, and it has a strong impact on our backbone design.
Is this in any way reasonable? fONOROLA's primary connections to the rest of the world are MCI and ANS. If they can't provide transit to MCI and ANS, they are essentialy useless to me. Of perticular interest to me is their last statement. Would this actualy have a "strong impact" on their backbone?
Matt, I do wish you'd feel free to ask us these sorts of questions directly. We're more than happy to provide you with an explanation, and an honest answer based on the facts will go a lot farther towards providing you with a solution, than open speculation on a mailing list. But feel free to solicit opinions. Language used in networking can be a bit confusing, since some of the aspects of networking are somewhat subtle. I will send you a more detailed explanation, but I wanted to set the record straight in this public forum. The reason we cannot guarantee transit AS connectivity is a direct result of not being your default connection. If you select us as default, we can guarantee transit access. The particulars behind that are technical; I will fill you in off-line, since that information is proprietary. And yes, it really does have a strong impact on our backbone *design*. [ BTW, Matt, we are iSTAR internet, inc. (formerly fONOROLA i*internet). Please use our new name when referring to us, to avoid any confusion. ]
Ya, drop them, they just don't want to do it.
Nathan Stratton CEO, NetRail, Inc. Your Gateway to the World!
[ Editorial mode on ] Frankly, it is this sort of unenlightened, baseless opinion that gives Usenet its deserved reputation. It certainly doesn't reflect the level of professionalism that a reputable NSP should display, on this list in particular. [ End of editorial mode ] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian Dickson, Email: briand@istar.ca iSTAR internet, inc., Tel : (613) 780-2200 Suite 202, 250 Albert Street, Fax : (613) 780-6666 Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, K1P 6M1 http://www.istar.ca -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Tue, 31 Oct 1995, Sean Doran wrote:
That kind of information is worth sharing so that both parties' shared customer is satisfied. (And perhaps this will be useful enough for people planning on multihoming between you and other providers than SprtintLink that it should be talked about in a more public forum with a view to helping people understand all the complicated issues involved in multihoming among several transit providing backbones.)
Yes, I think that would be great, we also have a sprint, and MCI connection.
Say, I wonder if this'll get me accused of unprofessionalism or disreputableness too? It's been a quiet week; nobody has ranted about me in far too long.
Maby, but I think it is a good idea. Nathan Stratton CEO, NetRail, Inc. Your Gateway to the World! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Phone (703)524-4800 NetRail, Inc. Fax (703)534-5033 2007 N. 15 St. Suite 5 Email sales@netrail.net Arlington, Va. 22201 WWW http://www.netrail.net/ Access: (703) 524-4802 guest ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Tue, 31 Oct 1995, Sean Doran wrote:
Say, I wonder if this'll get me accused of unprofessionalism or disreputableness too? It's been a quiet week; nobody has ranted about me in far too long.
The world is changing, Sean. And one of the things that is changing is the definition of "professionalism". Dragging things out into the open, hashing them out, and resolving issues based on facts is increasingly being seen as the professional way to do things. Michael Dillon Voice: +1-604-546-8022 Memra Software Inc. Fax: +1-604-542-4130 http://www.memra.com E-mail: michael@memra.com
On Tue, 31 Oct 1995, Sean Doran wrote:
Say, I wonder if this'll get me accused of unprofessionalism or disreputableness too? It's been a quiet week; nobody has ranted about me in far too long.
The world is changing, Sean. And one of the things that is changing is the definition of "professionalism". Dragging things out into the open, hashing them out, and resolving issues based on facts is increasingly being seen as the professional way to do things.
Not :-) Hashing out ideas in the open has always been considered "professional"... the boundary is crossed when the attack is directed toward the person and not the idea. This 'core aspect' of professionalism, will never change and hopefully, will never be 'redefined'. Learning to set boundaries around the ideas and not the person forwarding the ideas is something we all work on. Some are more practiced than others. But we all, like an apple on a tree, or wine in a wooden barrel, are experiencing life in the same event stream. The Internet is maturing, slowly, as well. I envision a day when corporate board meeting, minutes, and political minds meet on the network and develop policy in an organized, documented manner, with an elected 'chairperson' to maintain a detached, objective order of the decision making process. I am on the board on a new Internet based corporation currently where are motions and minutes are recorded my our network based secretary. It is *really* a lot of fun. As long as we are getting personal and philosophical, lets keep in mind that the only space-time event that is constant is change. Even the speed of light is relative to the gravitational field of the universe ...... The network will experience some very remarkable change over the coming years. Regards, Tim -- +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Tim Bass | #include<campfire.h> | | Principal Network Systems Engineer | for(beer=100;beer>1;beer++){ | | The Silk Road Group, Ltd. | take_one_down(); | | | pass_it_around(); | | http://www.silkroad.com/ | } | | | back_to_work(); /*never reached */ | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
participants (4)
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Michael Dillon -
Nathan Stratton -
Sean Doran -
Tim Bass