--On 13 February 2005 01:36 -0600 Jerry Pasker <info@n-connect.net> wrote:

Until there's deep shame, or real financial incentive to not being listed as a member of the dirty 30, nothing is going to happen in terms of aggregation.

Unfortunately, an automated email going out to each of the dirty 30 weekly from the Cidr Report saying that their network again made the list of top 30 most shameful examples of how to participate as an active member in the global routing table would probably have little effect. If they cared, they'd already be doing something about it.

Nothing is going to happen unless enough people (ASNs) take a simultaneous, and UNITED stand, and make it painful for those that don't care about the routes they leak to the net.

Here's an idea, it's probably not the best idea, and has a *lot* of potential problems, but it's just an idea:

Pick the top 1 or two worst offenders every week, and automatically dump them into a route distribution server would work in the same way as the Team Cymru bogon server list. I bet THAT would get people to scramble aggregate! Want to make a clear business case for spending time to clean up routes? How about "global routability" ? Every week, the top of the list would be singled out, and they could be placed on the server, and anyone that wanted to null route them based on that information could do so. A level of automation would be required to quickly remove them from the blacklist as soon as they aggregated, and quickly re-add them without warning if they decide to deaggregate within a certain time frame of being on the blacklist. If the addition/removal was automated, it would be clear cut as to why the "victim" was placed on the list. No favoritism or politics would come in to play.

It would get results. I'm not sure what those results would be, and the result might just be a bunch of really mad and aggravated people, and a slightly more broken internet, but there'd definitely be results.

Or something. ;-)

(I bet it would be a lot like the early days of DNS-RBL for mail servers)

I'm sure someone on this list who is wiser than me, has a better idea. I'd love to hear it discussed.

I'm going to repeat what I typed earlier:

Nothing is going to happen unless enough people (ASNs) take a simultaneous, and UNITED stand, and make it painful for those that don't care about the routes they leak to the net.

-Jerry

Perhaps another way this could happen might be by somewhat widespread use of something along the lines of ================= Cisco Version ======================== route-map CIDR_Top10 deny 10 match as-path 10 match ip address prefix-list deagg_pollution route-map CIDR_Abusers permit 1000 ip as-path access-list 10 permit _4323$ ip as-path access-list 10 permit _18566$ ip as-path access-list 10 permit _4134$ ip as-path access-list 10 permit _721$ ip as-path access-list 10 permit _22773$ ip as-path access-list 10 permit _7018$ ip as-path access-list 10 permit _27364$ ip as-path access-list 10 permit _6197$ ip as-path access-list 10 permit _3602$ ip as-path access-list 10 permit _6478$ ip prefix-list deagg_pollution seq 10 permit 0.0.0.0/1 ge 21 ip prefix-list deagg_pollution seq 20 permit 128.0.0.0/2 ge 21 ip prefix-list deagg_pollution seq 30 permit 192.0.0.0/3 ge 24 ======================================================== The as-path could easily be changed to include the top n abusers or to include downstream ASs rather than just source ASs. Just thinking out loud Peter Walker