Re: Lawsuit threat against RBL users
At 11:53 PM 12/3/1998 -0500, Scott Lampert wrote:
I don't know about where you live but here in BellSouth land you can call the phone company and block outgoing 900 number calls from your line.
Correct: YOU can ask to have things blocked on YOUR line. The phone company (or ISP) can't do that without YOUR permission. But if (say a CLEC) offers phone services without any 900 services, they have your permission when you sign up. Likewise, YOU can use the RBL to block YOUR mail, and your ISP can use the RBL if you give them permission. Which you do for example (according to US Attorney somewhere), if their service definition includes blocking. The ethics of the RBL and its ability to coerce people and organizations arbitrarily notwithstanding, its existance is probably not illegal. However, that does not mean that it can't be used to illegally block mail by people that don't have permission to block. The idea promulgated by some that a network operator can do whatever they feel like with "their equipment" is plainly wrong. There are laws which govern how that equipment can be used by its owners. The people who feel otherwise seem to be falling into the kook category, so I don't see any point in arguing further. 'Szechuan Death' brings up some good ethical and moral points about the RBL. ORBS is even more arbitrary and unethical. But I'm not sure this is of any operational importance. Hasn't the operational value of this discussion been exhausted? --Dean ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Plain Aviation, Inc dean@av8.com LAN/WAN/UNIX/NT/TCPIP http://www.av8.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hasn't the operational value of this discussion been exhausted?
Yes; in fact, a separate list was created to handle it:
Message-ID: <19981120161543.A21268@puck.nether.net> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:15:43 -0500 From: Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net> To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: rbl-discuss@puck.nether.net Reply-To: rbl-discuss@puck.nether.net
new mailing list out there.
rbl-discuss@puck.nether.net
for discussion of rbl type filtering, consequences, etc.
to get on:
send mail to rbl-discuss-request@puck.nether.net
subject: subscribe
to get off:
(insert pun here)
send mail to rbl-discuss-request@puck.nether.net
subject: unsubscribe
-- Jared Mauch | pgp key available via finger from jared@puck.nether.net clue++; | http://puck.nether.net/~jared/
Will everyone who wants to keep the RBL discussion alive *please* go there? Stephen
I don't know about where you live but here in BellSouth land you can call the phone company and block outgoing 900 number calls from your
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 dean, You have made this argument time and time again but have yet to provide citations of court cases where this has been decided and upheld. There are multiple cases out there which validate the right of a provider to block mail services from whomever they want. Remember Spamford? Saying something is so is one thing, providing cases where the legal system has made final decisions incl. after appeals is another. Prove that your interpretation of the law has been placed before a judge/jury and been held up under appeal. Otherwise qualify your statements as your interpretation of the law and your speculation as to how it would really hold up in court. - - James D. Wilson - -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of Dean Anderson Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 7:26 AM To: Scott Lampert; John Leong; sdeath@ackphft.matsu.alaska.edu Cc: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: Lawsuit threat against RBL users At 11:53 PM 12/3/1998 -0500, Scott Lampert wrote: line. Correct: YOU can ask to have things blocked on YOUR line. The phone company (or ISP) can't do that without YOUR permission. But if (say a CLEC) offers phone services without any 900 services, they have your permission when you sign up. Likewise, YOU can use the RBL to block YOUR mail, and your ISP can use the RBL if you give them permission. Which you do for example (according to US Attorney somewhere), if their service definition includes blocking. The ethics of the RBL and its ability to coerce people and organizations arbitrarily notwithstanding, its existance is probably not illegal. However, that does not mean that it can't be used to illegally block mail by people that don't have permission to block. The idea promulgated by some that a network operator can do whatever they feel like with "their equipment" is plainly wrong. There are laws which govern how that equipment can be used by its owners. The people who feel otherwise seem to be falling into the kook category, so I don't see any point in arguing further. 'Szechuan Death' brings up some good ethical and moral points about the RBL. ORBS is even more arbitrary and unethical. But I'm not sure this is of any operational importance. Hasn't the operational value of this discussion been exhausted? --Dean ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Plain Aviation, Inc dean@av8.com LAN/WAN/UNIX/NT/TCPIP http://www.av8.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.5 for non-commercial use <http://www.nai.com> Comment: All Spammers Are Thieves - Jail Them Now iQA/AwUBNmiolDAufbtGOmgdEQIGZQCgmFSl62Zi5JwgnnlhJRBFA4FsO40AnjWt 80qSqSS8p177CxG+W/rDGBaT =ejWb -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
participants (3)
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Dean Anderson -
James D. Wilson -
Stephen Stuart