Re: Bay Networks in bed with commie censors?
Ronald Barron Yokubaitis <rony@texas.net> wrote:
MMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmm...........Do the same considerations apply to BUYING from the PRC?
Please. The original speech was not about trade with PRC which is unquestionably good and desireable; but about cooperation with an organization whose _proclaimed_ goal is to build a politically censored version of Internet, and make uncensored networks completely illegal in PRC. --vadim
When the United States invaded a foreign territory, laid siege to its ruler's house, played blaring loud music at it, then broke in, shackled him, and took him to Florida, I thought that was interesting. When they took this foreign ruler and froze his funds and gave him public defenders, I thought that was interesting. When they charged him with crimes committed not by him and on his own foreign territory (but which impacted the United States), I thought that was interesting. If the United States is the conscience of the world, then yes, we should stop the PRC from setting up this network, prevent those Cubans from taking over companies and not giving us Cubanos, and arrest President Noriega ("Strongman" is the title the US govt. uses, but as I last thought, that's the guy in the circus that lifts weights...) for drug trafficking in Panama. If the United States is NOT the conscience of the world, then NO we do not need to go arrest foreign leaders, we do NOT need to tell Sadam whom and whom not he can attack, and we do NOT confuse Bay Networks and PRC with more regulatory tripe. I vote nay. But then I didn't buy my son an internet provider business either. Ehud
Ronald Barron Yokubaitis <rony@texas.net> wrote:
MMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmm...........Do the same considerations apply to BUYING from the PRC?
Please. The original speech was not about trade with PRC which is unquestionably good and desireable; but about cooperation with an organization whose _proclaimed_ goal is to build a politically censored version of Internet, and make uncensored networks completely illegal in PRC.
--vadim
Loud music? On Sat, 18 Jan 1997, Ehud Gavron wrote:
When the United States invaded a foreign territory, laid siege to its ruler's house, played blaring loud music at it, then broke in, shackled him, and took him to Florida, I thought that was interesting.
When they took this foreign ruler and froze his funds and gave him public defenders, I thought that was interesting.
When they charged him with crimes committed not by him and on his own foreign territory (but which impacted the United States), I thought that was interesting.
If the United States is the conscience of the world, then yes, we should stop the PRC from setting up this network, prevent those Cubans from taking over companies and not giving us Cubanos, and arrest President Noriega ("Strongman" is the title the US govt. uses, but as I last thought, that's the guy in the circus that lifts weights...) for drug trafficking in Panama.
If the United States is NOT the conscience of the world, then NO we do not need to go arrest foreign leaders, we do NOT need to tell Sadam whom and whom not he can attack, and we do NOT confuse Bay Networks and PRC with more regulatory tripe.
I vote nay. But then I didn't buy my son an internet provider business either.
Ehud
Ronald Barron Yokubaitis <rony@texas.net> wrote:
MMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmm...........Do the same considerations apply to BUYING from the PRC?
Please. The original speech was not about trade with PRC which is unquestionably good and desireable; but about cooperation with an organization whose _proclaimed_ goal is to build a politically censored version of Internet, and make uncensored networks completely illegal in PRC.
--vadim
What makes you all think that we were the only people competing for this business? Do you think that if we did not win that our competitors would not have trumpeted their accomplishments? _________________________________________________________________ Gordon Frank gfrank@baynetworks.com Bay Networks 8 Campus Drive Parsippany, NJ 07054 voice 201-285-5822 pager 888-605-1640 fax 201-285-5890
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Sat, 18 Jan 1997 19:08:39 -0800, avg@pluris.com writes:
Ronald Barron Yokubaitis <rony@texas.net> wrote:
MMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmm...........Do the same considerations apply to BUYING from the PRC?
Please. The original speech was not about trade with PRC which is unquestionably good and desireable; but about cooperation with an organization whose _proclaimed_ goal is to build a politically censored version of Internet, and make uncensored networks completely illegal in PRC.
You seem to be contradicting yourself. On one hand, you say that trade with the PRC is "unquestionably good and desireable". But on the other hand you condemn Bay Networks for selling products and technical services to the PRC (as you should know, "partner" is marketing-puke speak for "they are giving us LOTS of money, so let's make them feel special"). If selling products and support to organizations that construct censored networks shouldn't we condemn BOTH Bay Networks and Cisco for selling to U.S. corporations that use firewalls and other methods to control/monitor employee's access to the Internet? [A copy of the headers and the PGP signature follow.] Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:59:03 -0600 From: "Jeffrey C. Ollie" <jeff@ollie.clive.ia.us> In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 18 Jan 1997 19:08:39 PST." <199701190308.TAA02340@quest.pluris.com> Subject: Re: [NANOG] Bay Networks in bed with commie censors? To: nanog@merit.edu -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: AnySign 1.4 - A Python tool for PGP signing e-mail and news. iQCVAwUBMuGqHJwkOQz8sbZFAQHzCQQAgULCorxU0+G0zhKLPfIHBDu6ZBEusx72 ZRev3RkhLT2nRqCc6fz7HV/LYP5BTFVzxgdL4LcoQl5A0Vr8mL3+4V6PLrggU0ni sjo4It7p2lNDq2voTlCp4t+zH8i615PVVfvV+Gdgcq4LHg8hvKYoNhET8H8sPwjO INia7ZIzkSk= =OLJa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- Jeffrey C. Ollie | Should Work Now (TM) Python Hacker, Mac Lover |
When a sysop from world.std.com gets his network peed on by a spammer this list was full of a bunch of people who did not even think the discussion belonged here. But when we are talking about politics, the folk want to discuss it as if they are going to do something about censorship in China. Why not just say that PRC will do whatever it does, whatever NANOG discusses and that NANOG will never get in the way. Is the China issue more attractive -- or maybe just further away? If you will not do anything about the issue, why not have this discussion leave the list as well then? Cheers!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
On Sat, 18 Jan 1997 19:08:39 -0800, avg@pluris.com writes:
Ronald Barron Yokubaitis <rony@texas.net> wrote:
MMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmm...........Do the same considerations apply to BUYING from the PRC?
Please. The original speech was not about trade with PRC which is unquestionably good and desireable; but about cooperation with an organization whose _proclaimed_ goal is to build a politically censored version of Internet, and make uncensored networks completely illegal in PRC.
You seem to be contradicting yourself. On one hand, you say that trade with the PRC is "unquestionably good and desireable". But on the other hand you condemn Bay Networks for selling products and technical services to the PRC (as you should know, "partner" is marketing-puke speak for "they are giving us LOTS of money, so let's make them feel special").
If selling products and support to organizations that construct censored networks shouldn't we condemn BOTH Bay Networks and Cisco for selling to U.S. corporations that use firewalls and other methods to control/monitor employee's access to the Internet?
[A copy of the headers and the PGP signature follow.]
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:59:03 -0600 From: "Jeffrey C. Ollie" <jeff@ollie.clive.ia.us> In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 18 Jan 1997 19:08:39 PST." <199701190308.TAA02340@quest.pluris.com> Subject: Re: [NANOG] Bay Networks in bed with commie censors? To: nanog@merit.edu
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: AnySign 1.4 - A Python tool for PGP signing e-mail and news.
iQCVAwUBMuGqHJwkOQz8sbZFAQHzCQQAgULCorxU0+G0zhKLPfIHBDu6ZBEusx72 ZRev3RkhLT2nRqCc6fz7HV/LYP5BTFVzxgdL4LcoQl5A0Vr8mL3+4V6PLrggU0ni sjo4It7p2lNDq2voTlCp4t+zH8i615PVVfvV+Gdgcq4LHg8hvKYoNhET8H8sPwjO INia7ZIzkSk= =OLJa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- Jeffrey C. Ollie | Should Work Now (TM) Python Hacker, Mac Lover |
-- Craig Nordin -- cnordin@vni.net Virtual Networks http://www.vni.net
participants (6)
-
Craig Nordin -
Ehud Gavron -
Gordon Frank -
Jeffrey C. Ollie -
root -
Vadim Antonov