No. But I was thinking of something more robust. And I think it depends on what level you want your diagnostics to go to. Then there's metrics, analysis, detection processes. Ping and traceroute give me a ton of data. I was thinking of something that takes that data and turns it into the bottom line. Where is the problem, when did it start, all the good stuff. I still can't believe someone hasn't cashed in on this. Or is it something you wouldn't need or use? Jane Marc Pierrat wrote:
Is there a problem with good ol' fashioned ping and traceroute? They're on every platform, even windows.
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of Pawlukiewicz Jane Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 12:39 PM To: Nicolas Maton; nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: Diagnostic Tools
Sorry it took so long to reply. Work gets in the way...
Nicolas Maton wrote:
hmmm,
I still don't get the global picture?? You want to poll routers andso outside of your network ?
That's the idea I had, yeah. The traffic on my network is not hard to pull. We can analyze that data forever. What I'm curious about is the performance, or detection of problems in the routers that serve other networks, the gateways. Not like I'm curious about your internal network or anything, just there should be some way to determine the what, where, when of a boggle on the internet.
I thought by now there'd be a nice package we could buy from somebody that would pinpoint the problem(s). I was told they haven't developed that yet and couldn't believe it.
If you have access to them you can use some monitoring software like
Big Brother HP openvieuw Aprisma Spectrum CiscoWorks and so on.....
If you mean something else please let me know so i can search
an solution with you.
I'm not sure yet. Access is the rub, I think. Everyone is so proprietary these days. I suppose it doesn't matter.
<<< Cogito ergo sum >>>
?? (as in, what does that mean?)
Nicolas Maton Network Engineer s.a. Tiscali Belgium n.v. Rue de Stassart 43 de Stassartstraat 1050 Brussel -Bruxelles Belgie-Belgique NEW Direct number:+32 (0)2 4003663 NEW Cell Phone:+32 (0)498 889363 E-mail: nmaton@be.tiscali.com http://www.tiscali.be
This email and any attachments may be confidential and the
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professional privilege. Any disclosure, use, storage or copying of this email without the consent of the sender is strictly prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately if you are not the intended recipient and then delete the email from your inbox and do not disclose the contents to another person, use, copy or store the information in any medium. **********************************************************************
-----Original Message----- From: Pawlukiewicz Jane [mailto:pawlukiewicz_jane@bah.com] Sent: donderdag 6 juni 2002 16:01 To: Nicolas Maton Subject: Re: Diagnostic Tools
Thanks for responding so quickly.
I think I need to rephrase the question. I'm not thinking of diagnostics on a specific network, as in my company's intranetwork. I'm thinking there must be a set of diagnostic tools to determine where the problem is outside of my network. If its platform specific it wouldn't work very well, would it?
I was just thinking again. A dangerous hobby.
Thanks,
Jane
Nicolas Maton wrote:
For what platform?
-----Original Message----- From: Pawlukiewicz Jane [mailto:pawlukiewicz_jane@bah.com] Sent: donderdag 6 juni 2002 15:51 To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Diagnostic Tools
Hi,
I'm new here but I already have a quick question.
What are the best diagnostic tools available to network
operators today?
Thanks for any info,
Jane
No. But I was thinking of something more robust. And I think it depends on what level you want your diagnostics to go to. Then there's metrics, analysis, detection processes.
Ping and traceroute give me a ton of data. I was thinking of something that takes that data and turns it into the bottom line. Where is the problem, when did it start, all the good stuff.
I still can't believe someone hasn't cashed in on this. Or is it something you wouldn't need or use?
Jane
Marc Pierrat wrote:
Is there a problem with good ol' fashioned ping and traceroute? They're
on every platform, even windows.
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of Pawlukiewicz Jane Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 12:39 PM To: Nicolas Maton; nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: Diagnostic Tools
Sorry it took so long to reply. Work gets in the way...
Nicolas Maton wrote:
hmmm,
I still don't get the global picture?? You want to poll routers andso outside of your network ?
That's the idea I had, yeah. The traffic on my network is not hard to pull. We can analyze that data forever. What I'm curious about is the performance, or detection of problems in the routers that serve other networks, the gateways. Not like I'm curious about your internal
network
or anything, just there should be some way to determine the what, where, when of a boggle on the internet.
I thought by now there'd be a nice package we could buy from somebody that would pinpoint the problem(s). I was told they haven't developed that yet and couldn't believe it.
If you have access to them you can use some monitoring software like
Big Brother HP openvieuw Aprisma Spectrum CiscoWorks and so on.....
If you mean something else please let me know so i can search
an solution with you.
I'm not sure yet. Access is the rub, I think. Everyone is so
these days. I suppose it doesn't matter.
<<< Cogito ergo sum >>>
?? (as in, what does that mean?)
Nicolas Maton Network Engineer s.a. Tiscali Belgium n.v. Rue de Stassart 43 de Stassartstraat 1050 Brussel -Bruxelles Belgie-Belgique NEW Direct number:+32 (0)2 4003663 NEW Cell Phone:+32 (0)498 889363 E-mail: nmaton@be.tiscali.com http://www.tiscali.be
This email and any attachments may be confidential and the
subject of legal
professional privilege. Any disclosure, use, storage or copying of
I use something call netscan tools 2002. It may or may not be what your looking for. netscantools.com -Eric ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pawlukiewicz Jane" <pawlukiewicz_jane@bah.com> To: "Marc Pierrat" <marc@sunchar.com>; <nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 10:02 AM Subject: Re: Diagnostic Tools proprietary this
email without the consent of the sender is strictly prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately if you are not the intended recipient and then delete the email from your inbox and do not disclose the contents to another person, use, copy or store the information in any medium.
-----Original Message----- From: Pawlukiewicz Jane [mailto:pawlukiewicz_jane@bah.com] Sent: donderdag 6 juni 2002 16:01 To: Nicolas Maton Subject: Re: Diagnostic Tools
Thanks for responding so quickly.
I think I need to rephrase the question. I'm not thinking of
on a specific network, as in my company's intranetwork. I'm thinking there must be a set of diagnostic tools to determine where the
diagnostics problem
is outside of my network. If its platform specific it wouldn't work very well, would it?
I was just thinking again. A dangerous hobby.
Thanks,
Jane
Nicolas Maton wrote:
For what platform?
-----Original Message----- From: Pawlukiewicz Jane [mailto:pawlukiewicz_jane@bah.com] Sent: donderdag 6 juni 2002 15:51 To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Diagnostic Tools
Hi,
I'm new here but I already have a quick question.
What are the best diagnostic tools available to network
operators today?
Thanks for any info,
Jane
----- Original Message ----- From: "Pawlukiewicz Jane" <pawlukiewicz_jane@bah.com> To: "Marc Pierrat" <marc@sunchar.com>; <nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 10:02 AM Subject: Re: Diagnostic Tools
No. But I was thinking of something more robust. And I think it depends on what level you want your diagnostics to go to. Then there's metrics, analysis, detection processes.
Ping and traceroute give me a ton of data. I was thinking of something that takes that data and turns it into the bottom line. Where is the problem, when did it start, all the good stuff.
I still can't believe someone hasn't cashed in on this. Or is it something you wouldn't need or use?
the bottom line is, when you're on the outside looking in, there's only so much you're going to be able to see or analyze on someone else's network. everyone needs tools like this, and would use them. trouble is, it's a hard problem to solve and design tools for. many groups have formed to discuss "standard metrics" with respect to IP backbones. i'm not sure there's ever been much concensus from them. see www.caida.org. just poke around, lots of data on the order of what i think you're looking for. however, they usually anonymize (is that a word?) the data to be politically correct and protect themselves legally. some folks at caimis.com (acquired by ixia) were doing some really interesting development of tools for routing performance metrics. www.ixiacom.com. if you want to participate in standards for this kind of thing, go peruse www.ietf.org and look for the performance metrics working groups and netops groups. -b
Jane Pawlukiewicz wrote: > Ping and traceroute give me a ton of data. I was thinking of something > that takes that data and turns it into the bottom line. Where is the > problem, when did it start, all the good stuff. I think that's called Sean Donelan. :-) To give you a serious answer, though, there are a few reasons why this is a problem that smart software developers are leery of tackling. Two big ones are: - What to measure? Loss, latency, jitter and path length and changes are obvious metrics, but where do you measure to and from? Do you measure from the desktop machine of whoever buys your software, or do you measure from somewhere or some large set of somewheres which might be more representative of the Internet overall, at the risk of being less representative of the customer themselves? Do you measure to some set of generic frequently-viewed web sites, although this is likely to annoy the proprietors of those sites, if the tool becomes popular? Or to some set of routers within the backbone infrastructure, although someone may get wise and put them on private addresses or cause them to stop wasting cycles responding to your tool? Is there even a right answer to this? It may be that one size doesn't fit all. - If you know what you want to measure to and from, can you observe the path in both directions? In order to do either active or passive measurement of a path, you have to have devices in that path, and a path is generally uni-directional for at least a portion of its length. That is, the forward and reverse directions pass through different equipment across different links, utilize capacity differentially in each direction, and share available capacity with other flows which are utilizing it differentially as well. If you think about what this means, the unfortunate conclusion that most people reach is that even if one were able to distribute thousands of probes throughout the Internet, one would still only be able to measure a _tiny_ portion of the paths, and the portion is tiny enough that it may not be sufficient to extrapolate any useful statistics from. -Bill
participants (4)
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Bill Woodcock -
brett watson -
Eric Rogers -
Pawlukiewicz Jane