One would also think that large OTT content providers which publish Android and IOS apps could....
You said the magic word ; could. It's the natural extension of MBA Math ; If you can pay for something 'as a service' , it's going to be cheaper than paying people to develop it in house. That 'service' is usually a reasonably high percentage of 'good enough' so as not to really impact your revenue. For larger 'chunks' of problems that could be a notable revenue hit , you'll allocate some resources to work that out, but the smattering of instances here or there, sorry Charlie. On Sun, Feb 5, 2023 at 7:10 PM Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke@gmail.com> wrote:
One would also think that large OTT content providers which publish Android and IOS apps could use the geolocation-permission data gathered from the device, telemetry reported to their own internal systems to gather their own independent data sets on where customers are geographically located, at least as coarse to a specific metro area.. And use that to clean up geolocation features where 3rd party IP geolocation datasets don't match reality.
At the smallest scale of customer count: For instance if they have many dozens or hundreds of subscribers whose devices often sign in from the same /24 block, *and* in which that block is not known to be cellular carrier/MNO/MVNO IP space, *and* the devices' geolocation API data reports they're in a certain suburb of Portland. Or even if you have something like a smart TV in a house which has no geolocation ability/API exposed but many of the customers' *other* devices which *do* report geolocation API often sign in to the same account from the same residential-last-mile-provider dhcp pool /32 address.
The amount of telemetry data collected off an android or ios devices these days by most consumer apps is quite comprehensive, and as we all known the average person is extremely likely to click "Yes/accept" on any software/interface modal popups, so the majority of the devices will not have geolocation blocked. They already have whole teams of highly paid software developers working on the DRM-specific code in their video streaming apps, so clearly some use of that data is made already.
On Sat, Feb 4, 2023 at 11:41 PM John van Oppen <john@vanoppen.com> wrote:
Honestly, the only way I’ve found to fix this is completely fill it with subscribers off a BNG and give support a script about what to tell customers.
I’ve had folks literally get the wrong TV channels because we assign unused blocks in Portland Oregon out of our parent large aggrigates and the geo folks have our whois address in the seattle area so give them seattle channels. God forbid these OTT folks just design the product right and use the verified billing zip code on the account or something else that actually is authoritative.
*From:* NANOG <nanog-bounces+john=vanoppen.com@nanog.org> *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman *Sent:* Monday, January 23, 2023 1:09 PM *To:* Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net> *Cc:* nanog <nanog@nanog.org> *Subject:* Re: Increasing problems with geolocation/IPv4 access
Every block I've gotten I just went through TheBrothersWisp geo location page and just had them fix their information. This includes virgin and re-issued blocks from ARIN.
I've had a couple of random issues like Hulu thinking I'm a VPN, PSN blocking a /24 because a /32 failed his password too many times, and various streaming issues of which I tell customers to complain to the streaming provider because all of the other ones work.
On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 7:32 PM Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net> wrote:
I’ve been seeing an increasing problem with IP space not having the ability to be used due to the behaviors of either geolocation or worse, people blocking IP space after it’s been in-use for a period of time.
Before I go back to someone at ARIN and say “your shiny unused 4.10 IP space” is non-functional and am at a place where I need to start/restart/respawn the timer, I have a few questions for people:
1) Do you see 23.138.114.0/24 in any feeds from a security provider that say it can/should be blocked? If so, I’d love to hear from you to track this down. Over the new year we had some local schools start to block this IP space.
2) many companies have geolocation feeds and services that exist and pull in data. The reputable people are easy to find, there are those that are problematic from time-to-time (I had a few customers leave Sling due to the issues with that service).
3) Have you had similar issues? How are you chasing all the issues? We’ve seen things from everything works except uploading check images to banks, to other financial service companies block the space our customers are in. If we move them to another range this solves the problem.
4) We do IPv6, these places aren’t IPv6 modern at all, so that’s no help.
5) IRR+geofeed are published of course. I’m thinking that it might be worthwhile that IP space have published placeholders when it’s well understood, eg: ARIN 4.9 space, I can predict what our next allocation would be, it would be great to have it be pre-warmed.
I’ve only seen a few complaints against all our IP space over time, so I don’t think there’s anything malicious coming from the IP space to justify it, but it’s also possible they didn’t make it through.
If you’re with the FKA Savvis side, can you also ping me, I’d like to see if you can reach out to our most recent complaint source to see if we can find who is publishing this. Same if you’re with Merit or the Michigan Statewide Educational Network - your teachers stopped being able to post to powerschool for their students over the new year break. They’ve fed it up to their tech people towards the ISD. Details available off-list.
Any insights are welcome, and as I said, I’d like to understand where the source list is as it starts out working then gradually breaks, so someone is publishing things and they are going out further.
- Jared