I think there is also an issue with the fact that the ADSU's can't deal with anything other than PVC's. In my opinion, we really need to move to an SVC environment ASAP to simplify the VC management issues. Large numbers of PVC's are going to be a royal pain to tend, esp. if they have to be configured manually. I can just imagine the problems stemming from asynchonous updates of VC configurations by the various attachees at the NAP's. I also happen to believe that the network management issues associated with an ADSU are more complicated and make it harder to debug problems than with a native inboard unit like an AIP, but I realize that none of the other major router vendors are shipping AIP equivalent devices right now (and the AIP is a nice piece of work to be sure). This means that if you don't support the ADSU's, you pretty much lock people into use of ciscos, which I oppose on the principle of assuring multivendor interoperation. That issue isn't cisco's fault of course, but rather that we're being rushed to put immature and still evolving ATM technology into a critical piece of the operational Internet infrastructure before it really makes sense to do so because of marketing and regulatory issues, but that's another story. :-) Thanks, Milo