On 1/5/2011 9:39 PM, Cameron Byrne wrote:
I understand my users pretty well, they only go to a few web pages ... its the nature of the net. I assure you, i am not taking any undue risk with regards to web. Try our friendly user trial and give me your feedback, thats why i am running it.
I'm not particularly surprised that a mobile client platform has a different access pattern than desktop users... not a whole lot of mobile BitTorrent clients yet, for instance.
Ah Skype. According to your web page you work at Skype. Skype is a well known IPv6 spoiler application. In fact, in the IETF and many other circles, Skype is the only app that we can't seem to get to work with IPv6. Are you here to help with that or to tell us that we need to keep IPv4 around indefinitely?
Indeed, I work at Skype now and Adobe (developing RTMFP) before that. At this point (because not everyone has IPv6) this class of applications (along with BitTorrent and ICE-using VoIP apps) needs to be able to use your NAT64 to talk to peers that are IPv4-only. To do that, they need to be able to discover your NAT64 even though they're not doing DNS lookups to find the IPv4 addresses of peers. This will take 1) a way to do this and 2) upgrades of the apps to take advantage of it. It is impossible to do #2 until #1 is solved. There's been discussion in BEHAVE about this topic... draft-korhonen-behave-nat64-learn-analysis for instance. I even proposed a solution that wasn't raised in that or previous documents here: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/behave/current/msg09050.html (which I suppose, since it hasn't been mentioned elsewhere, should be written up as a draft if/when I have some free time)
Skype should not be the IPv6 spoiler app when NEARLY EVERYTHING ELSE WORKS. Read the thread i mentioned, real users, real developers, real network that is IPv6-only. Notice that things generally work, those folks have hacked their way to perhaps even making Skype work. There's lots of other apps that don't work. Skype is just the squeaky wheel because it is so popular.
Seriously, 95+% of my traffic is web and email, and STUN and ICE don't matter much to grandma as long as m.v6.facebook.com loads.
See my above comment about how I'm not surprised, given the specific client population.
As long as dual-stack is around, the app vendors don't have to move and network guys have to dream up hacks to support these legacy apps (CGN ....).
Dual-stack + NAT44 has a lot fewer unsolved corner cases *and* doesn't require apps to be upgraded to do discovery of the NAT64 prefix(es) (which, for some legacy apps that are no longer under development will never happen). NAT64/DNS64 is an interesting experiment that works for >95% of the web. But it isn't really a solution unless "the web" is all you care about. Matthew Kaufman