On 4/26/13 7:31 AM, "Owen DeLong" <owen@delong.com> wrote:
On Apr 25, 2013, at 10:49 PM, Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote:
On 04/25/2013 07:27 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:
At some level, I wonder how much the feedback loop of "providers won't deploy ipv6 because everybody says they won't deploy ipv6" has caused this self-fulfilling prophecy :/ It's a definite issue. The bigger issue is the financial incentives are all in the wrong direction.
Eyeball networks have an incentive not to deploy IPv6 until content providers have done so or until they have no other choice.
Yet, eyeball networks are the ones being asked to pony up all of the cost to put in place the hacks to keep v4 running so they don't get support center calls. That's a pretty asymmetric, and a potential opportunity.
Quite the contrary I personally think that the abysmal rate of IPv6 adoption among some content providers (Are you listening, Amazon, Xbox, BING?) is just plain shameful.
Bing supports IPv6: http://www.worldipv6launch.org/ The site www.xbox.com supports IPv6 (ditto), but the Xbox device does not. My favorite place to see what content supports IPv6 is Eric Vyncke's site: http://www.vyncke.org/ipv6status/detailed.php?country=us Thus, credit to Microsoft for Bing, but points off for live.com, msn.com, microsoft.com, etc. Similarly, partial credit to Amazon for ELB on AWS [1], but points off for amazon.com, ebay.com, and for pity's sake, aws.amazon.com and amazonaws.com. [1] http://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2011/05/24/elb-ipv6-zoneapex-secu ritygroups/
I applaud Yahoo, Google, Facebook, and others who have adopted IPv6. I'd like to applaud Netflix here, but they keep going back and forth on their IPv6 support, so they get a one-handed clap for the moment.
I'm trying to encourage people to push on the content providers to deploy IPv6 to avoid the need for eyeball networks to pony up all these bizarre hacks.
Lee Howard has some rather interesting research showing that for eyeball networks, the most cost effective thing up to about (IIRC) $15/address is to simply keep buying IPv4 addresses on the transfer market. Beyond that, it actually becomes cheaper to simply go IPv6-only and accept the loss of customers that won't accept that solution.
See http://www.nanog.org/meetings/nanog56/presentations/Wednesday/wed.general.h oward.24.wmv and http://www.nanog.org/meetings/nanog57/presentations/Tuesday/tue.cost-ipv4-i pv6-dual-stack.howard.wmv (and for dollar signs on the second one, see TCO of IPv6 at http://new.livestream.com/internetsociety/INETDenver2013/videos/16668823 ) But to see the rest, you have come to NANOG58 in New Orleans!
On the other hand, there is The Cloud. I assume that aws and all of the other major vm farms have native v6 networks by now (?). I hooked up You again assume facts not in evidence. Many cloud providers have done IPv6. Rackspace stands out as exemplary in this regard. Linode has done some good work in this space.
AWS stands out as a complete laggard in this area.
Heh... that's why I put all kinds of question marks and hedges :) That's disappointing about aws. On the other hand, if aws lights up v6, a huge amount of content will be v6 capable in one swell-foop. Which is a different problem of death by a thousand cuts of corpro data centers, and racked up servers in no-name cages.
Actually, if Amazon.com lit up IPv6, it would dramatically change the IPv6-only client landscape. I believe they are the single largest IPv4-only content provider remaining. IIRC from Lee's statistics, Amazon + any 2 other members of the Alexa 100 would make it possible for 70% or more of web traffic to go over IPv6.
Not mine; Alain Fiocco's numbers at http://6lab.cisco.com/stats/ It's not quite that positive, either, but you can see in the Information page of that site that there's a very sharp bend in which sites get the most hits. The top 15-20 are disproportionate; after that, in many cases substitute web sites are available.
v6 support on linode in, oh, less than an hour for my site. Maybe part of this just evangelizing with the Cloud folks to get the word out that v6 is both supported *and* beneficial for your site? And it might give them a leg up with "legacy" web infrastructure data centers to lure them? "Oh, your corpro IT guys won't light up v6? let me show you how easy it is on $MEGACLOUD". +1 -- I encourage people to seek providers that support IPv6.
Name. and. shame. At some level, some amount of bs is probably useful to scare the suits: "OMG, VZW'S PHONES SUPPORT V6, DO WE DO THAT????". Roll your eyes, but, well, remember they're suits.
I've been doing just that. Interestingly, I got a great deal of criticism for doing so recently.
Where do you name and shame suits? Hint: it isn't NANOG. Lee, who has been known to wear a suit