hang on there while i'm actually *not* necessarily against your proposal for providers to "just take over," i do think you're being a bit rash. specifically, if you want to do something like this, why not actually propose the *way* that the "seized" addresses would be allocated such that your proposal results in a *less* chaotic future? for example, why not try a test run of some of the market-based approaches others have suggested? the most promising one, in my opinion, is scott huddle's proposal for a market for both addresses and routing table slots; registries (which cover the address part) would simply record who has what address while the providers (and whatever other third- party businesses which might spring up) would deal with the routing slot part. this assumes certain mechanisms within bgp (or some other ~routing protocol) to reserve slots (kind of like an RSVP for routing [as opposed to forwarding]), but i think some of the direct implications, as well as some of the fallout, would be very good and would show the internet maturing as a service. i also think it would help technically by forcing us to answer the question: "given a time and a technology, what does 'full' mean for a routing table?" in other words, if you're gonna take over the world, don't just do more of the same... just my US$0.02 /jws
Let me add a word to Brett's comments. This IS a world-scale economy.
If a LARGE GROUP OF NETWORK PROVIDERS (that's us, btw, nanog), decided TOMORROW that WE will assign address space and route to it, there is no force in the world that will charge for it, or be able to change it.
Here's the Ehud Scenario: 1. Tomorrow Paul Vixie gets a pirate hair up his dec alpha and puts in 64.in-addr.arpa. through 126.in-addr.arpa. in F. 2. We start assigning nets from this block (64/8-126/8). 3. We start routing to this block (ok, I don't own a backbone yet, but let me use "we" meaning nanog for now ;)
Is this unlawful? No. There's no law about announcing routes, nor about delegating them in private internets. For practical purposes, NANOG members form a private internet.
Is this unethical? Some would say 'Sure, only the InterNIC and IANA can assign IP addresses.' Some tell me this thinking is obsolete. Jim Fleming would salivate, and Karl Deninger would laugh. Well, maybe.
Is this impractical? I dunno. I figure we could bribe Paul with $ 2000 per assignment regardless of size (after all, two NS entries are all the same cost). After about 52 /24s, he'd double his yearly retainer income (all figures guesses with no real basis) and probably be able to retire to Caymans. (That's a Brett Scenario).
Oh yeah, it's my idea, so I want anyone who gets an allocation from
this scheme to send me a bottle of single-malt Scotch.
Let me know if I've left something out.
Ehud
p.s. If I've pissed off anybody in this post, send me a private note via us mail. Be sure to include a bottle of single malt Scotch or your note will be returned. Just like email to admin@cr l
So that I'm not misunderstood let me say this:
1: I do not neccessarily agree with the sale of IPs, personally, I don't think its a good idea
2: This is a real world economy now, outdated academic practices which are currently being enforced are as wrong as the sale of IPs.
3: Wether you, ARIN, or anyone else likes it or not, IPs are for all intent s and purposes a resellable commodity, otherwise ARIN et all can (ala Jim Flemming) be called on as being a Monopoly.
4: The simple fact of the matter is that the RFCs are not at any time, the law of the land. They are at best guidelines and good ideas set down for others to follow, but there is no rule stating that you _must_ follow them.
5: Before you start chasing wild geese selling Class B address space I suggest you go back and check on all those folks that got space long before there were any 'restrictions and justifications'. I have no doubt that ther e is a veritable feast of IPs sitting unused at MIT, USC, and other such institutions that would be better used elsewhere instead of sitting in a corner like a dusty grad student.
6: Finally and most importantly, stop pretending you still live in the worl d of happy academia where everyone is willing to follow the rules you set dow n just because you're the proffessor and they're the student. This just does not work anymore, you may scoff at people like Jim Flemming but for each on e you knock down there is another one to learn from his mistakes and take his place. Do not pretend you can sit idle and call people who don't fall in line behind you names so that you can sit back in your dusty chair and pretend nothing is wrong. The internet as a whole is growing at an unthough t of pace and your failure to keep up will not be fixed by being tight assed and making it harder on those that follow. Eventually someone else will tak e the forefront and throw you off your high horse like yesterdays newspaper. You purport to be leaders of the internet, then its about time you acted like it and start to solve the problems instead of trying to make the problems go away by being ignorant of reality.
[-] Brett L. Hawn (blh @ nol dot net) [-] [-] Networks On-Line - Houston, Texas [-] [-] 713-467-7100 [-]