Edward S. Marshall wrote:
This has already been tried (I believe someone created the "offtopic-bullshit" list at one point for inet-access), and just doesn't work; the people involved -don't use it-, and moderating a forum like NANOG would reduce the speed at which urgent operational messages would go out (before you say "make an exception list for those with clue", think about who decides who gets on that "clue list", and how people are removed from it). And this is a operator's list; you should expect a certain minimum of discussion of operations-related issues.
You say it has been tried, but but then your example is of something entirely different. So I assert that it has NOT been tried. Should I propose it again so you can really read it this time? I proposed a web based FORUM ... not a mailing list. I did mention in my own posting that I would not join if it were a mailing list. Perhaps the "offtopic-bullshit" list for inet-access failed because lots of people, maybe the majority, feel as I do, that a high volume discussion does not belong in a mailbox. The reason I proposed it is to help keep NANOG un-moderated. I do agree that NANOG needs to remain un-moderated. I don't want to see any sort of process of having to decide who can and who cannot post to NANOG, either. I don't suggest that all discussion be rejected from the mailing list. But a separate FORUM would at least be a place where people can divert to carry out additional conversations, especially those things that are of interest to many members of NANOG, but not of interest to all.
Personally, NANOG's signal-to-noise ratio is still incredibly low compared to most lists I'm on. Allow me to voice my vote for leaving things the way they are: open posting for those who have actually worked out how to subscribe to the posting list.
I'm not suggesting that point be changed. My proposal was to help ensure that it can remain this way.
The one suggestion I'd make would be starting to be a little more aggressive about letting people know that their messages are offtopic (via Merit listadmins or appointed watchdogs), and clamping down on repeat offenders (by removal of posting priviledges). Self-moderation via consequences, vs. enforced moderation.
This may not be necessary if we have an area for diversion. All that needs to be said when a thread on the mailing list gets too far off base is "take it over to the forum". Then if someone refuses to do that they can have their posting revoked. -- -- *-----------------------------* Phil Howard KA9WGN * -- -- | Inturnet, Inc. | Director of Internet Services | -- -- | Business Internet Solutions | eng at intur.net | -- -- *-----------------------------* philh at intur.net * --