I'd just like to take a quick opportunity to clear up some misconceptions on the subject of Denial of Service which seem to have been running rampant around here. First off, I am a longer time EFNet user as well as a former EFNet admin, and I have probably been the target of every type of DoS you could imagine at one point or another. You should not mistake cynicism for a particular chat network for apathy about DoS. I also do not believe IRC as a service is any less deserving of protection from attacks, but I do believe it is far more explainable. Secondly, let's not kid ourselves about where DoS comes from. If EFNet has earned one distinction, it is as the source of every major DoS currently in use against the internet. These programs don't write themselves, nor do people learn to use them effectively for no reason. By far the VAST majority of EVERY attack anyone on this list will EVER see *IS* related to IRC, and if you think "la de da I'm just an innocent little network who gets attacked for no reason" then you obviously don't know what your users are doing. The attacks against other targets like yahoo ebay etc are very rare and happen only as a result of packet kids building a network for use against their IRC targets and then realizing there is a whole world out there that doesn't see attacks like this on a regular basis. Let's also get off our delusions of power that help us deal with the powerlessness of being a DoS victim, no one has filed serious litigation against a network for their unintentional involvement in a DoS, and if anyone does it surely won't be EFNet. We all want someone to blame, but the reality of the matter is that the vast majority of attack sources are victims without any real negligence, and the vast majority of attacks are simply not going to be traced back to the person responsible. None of this changes the fundamental need to design networks which are resistant to malicious disruption, but let's at least try to deal with the reality of the situation. One other comment I'll make for the people who take IRC so seriously as to get bent out of shape over these words: It's just IRC. Repeat that to yourself at least 10 times every night. And one last request, unless you really have something to contribute, please don't reply to this on-list. Thanks. -- Richard A Steenbergen <ras@e-gerbil.net> http://www.e-gerbil.net/ras PGP Key ID: 0x138EA177 (67 29 D7 BC E8 18 3E DA B2 46 B3 D8 14 36 FE B6)