Only time I've heard mention from ISPs about tiers is usually from some small ISP claiming that they are a "tier 1" provider because they own some piece of equipment at a NAP. Someone named Winstar called up one of my clients trying to get them to switch from AT&T to Winstar because "winstar is a tier 1 and AT&T Worldnet is only a tier 2 provider". This whole thing reminds me of the useless "bandwidth to net" stat that is listed so prominently in Boardwatch. BTW: Has anyone used a program called treno to measure bandwidth availability on the Net from different points? -- Allan Chong allan@alum.mit.edu I guess I kinda lost control, because in the middle of the play I ran up and lit the evil puppet villain on fire. No, I didn't. Just kidding. I just said that to help illustrate one of the human emotions, which is freaking out. Another emotion is greed, as when you kill someone for money, or something like that. Another emotion is generosity, as when you pay someone double what he paid for his stupid puppet. -- Jack Handey