As a person who actively works an abuse department... We need to remember that while lots of folks will scream like banshees at the reciept of a single email, very few (none that I know of personally) will help a place *stay* "white hat" by voting with their wallets to support the killing of spammers. It's a business folks - if you kill a customer who is paying his bills every month (and full DS3's are not cheap), you must make it up somewhere. When I kill a *small time* spammer (a T1 or a pair of T1s), I have to be able to make a business case that the guy is costing more than he is bringing in, and I need to do this for each and every kill. Where are the hordes who will support the ISP/NSP who makes these kills? It CANNOT be a one-way street (which it pretty much is today). I work goddamn hard keeping my corner crispy white, but the crispy whites are invisible when it comes to sales time. No sales means I can't justify what I do. And if I can't justify it, then SPEWS, or Selward, or God herself isn't going to make any difference screaming that a pink contract is the wrong thing to do... <asbestos underwear firmly in place> -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin@mfn.org If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... --------------------------------------------------------------------