On Mon, 21 Oct 1996, Billy Biggs wrote: ==>Looking for opinions here: Do I have the right, as a citizen of the ==>internet, to phone up the NOC of another major provider to solve packet ==>loss through their routers? Let's put it in another perspective. You go to Safeway, and you want some oranges. Unfortunately, Safeway's provider of oranges is having a problem getting Safeway oranges that are orange enough. Do you have the right to call up Safeway's provider? Not really. And even if you did call them up, what do you think will do a better job; asking safeway--as a paying customer--to convey your messages, or calling their distributor direct? I know plenty of technical support managers who would, if called by a non-customer, be not-so-happy that his support structure is spending time helping non-customers as opposed to customers, the people that make the money for the company. A friend of mine, who works for an ISP, says that when some of his customers called their upper-level NSP to complain, the NSP wasn't too happy and asked them to please remind their customers to call their own support organization, and filter the problems up if they begin to receive a number of complaints. Just my $0.02.