Hi, well, you an say one thing - the talk got a lot of conversation going - most of it useful and positive and informational.....isnt that the sign of a good talk? ;-) seriously, this thread has been very active/alive based on the initial trigger of his talk. as for the talk itself....everyone has their views....and people should feel free to provide their opinion when on the soapbox/presentation stage - as long as its within the law (in some doamins being offensive / testing boundaries is part of the territory - eg comedians - but I wouldnt accept that sort of boundary/officensiveness at an IT/networking presentation). theres an old adage about opinions and everyone having one....its a tru-ism for sure - but whilst he might not have had a full picture the resulting conversation on this mailing list has provided much information. Now, just need similar talk on the topic of BGP peering security ;-) alan