Most of the note below is just a rant, similar in form to the dozen notes by a handful of posters over the weekend here, on NANOG-Reform & NANOG-Futures. C'mon folks, refocus that energy into doing something professional and positive for the NANOG community. Please cease demands for over-the-top documentation from hard-working volunteers. Fixating on a stray message or two that were sent in advance of archive activation is fruitless. There is no way what was said in the halls at the NANOG meetings - in Reston or Vegas - about this project could be documented in full either. Embrace the progress made on many fronts and work towards the by-laws. -ren At 08:59 PM 2/20/2005 -0800, Michel Py wrote:
Hi Gadi,
Gadi Evron wrote: Please read the below text in full, if you are going to read any of it. I use a lot of cynicism to get my point across.
Same here. Besides cynicism, I also use (and possibly abuse) sarcasm.
I haven't been involved with the NANOG reform initiative, and haven't really commented on it, as I liked what I saw and am not really that involved with NANOG politics - and that's just how I like it. However, I can't ignore some of the things I am seeing lately from the outside, hence my comments, which are mine alone and stand as opinions others don't have to accept. Also, I may be wrong. Replies I received, especially from Steve, satisfied me originally. No longer.
FWIW, I am interested in hearing more about the "no longer" part.
I believe in Merit's wishes, good will, hard work and promises. I really do.
For the record, I do not believe in wishes, good will, promises, rumors, buzzwords and the list is too long to go on. I believe in results. Except:
hard work.
I do believe in this one. It does not mean that I like it, as I prefer napping on the beach with nothing to do to working, but I do believe in this one anyway. If anyone has good tips on how to achieve the same by napping on the beach instead of hard working, please speak up!
And I am willing to give them time and working-space.
Same here.
Thing is, we seem to be missing something. Martin Hannigan, an all around good guy, seems (to me) to have made a snag at management, hiding behind the reform.
I could have written this myself. For the record, these are my own words posted on nanog-reform 3 days ago:
"This will be perceived by the innocent bystander as follows: Martin wanted Susan's job and got it through backroom maneuvers in the dark."
Can't argue with my ill-formed and un-informed feelings (or any feelings for that matter), right?
Whether your feelings are ill-formed and/or un-informed is not relevant to me (also valid for my own feelings, BTW). Paul Vixie and William Allen Simpson have recently worded better text than I could about this.
You can explain to me, how this is not the case and I am making stupid deductions, based on facts you did not yet easily provide - that has yet to happen. I wonder why. Please give me facts that will burn these weird ideas our of my skull.. please.. I *want* to see the light.
I'm afraid I want to see the light as much as you do, not the one carrying the light.
Now, I don't really mind the reform or Martin doing it, I just don't see how it is "visible" beyond us just being "told" about it.
My point also.
When I am *told* about something, I go to conspiracy theories,
This reminds me that I have to have a good talk between me, my ego and my subconscious mind about conspiracy theories. Do you have two other guys in your brain too?
and then to investigation. I am paranoid, it's my job.
If you don't mind my asking, is this a _paying_ job? If yes, I wouldn't mind a copy of the application form :-)
You don't have to like my opinions or listen to me. But me and how many others have these mis-conceptions? Please share with us few idio... ignorant fools.
I would have written: "idio^H^H^H^H ignorant fools."
Enlighten us.
As mentioned earlier, I am not the one carrying the light. I expect Sue Joiner to shed light soon though.
"Provisional" [government] is way too "un-declared" in my opinion. Please "define" what "provisional" means. Also, I am overly uncomfortable about the lack of visibility from the offset. Visibility is the main "thing" Merit promised.
Gadi, you are preaching the choir.
[This sounds weird to me as much as I expect it does to you; not only I do not know of everyone that actually has preached a choir, it does not appear to me that you could be one of these. Nevertheless it is a very common English/American sentence; non-native English speakers, google is your friend]
Now, I don't personally know you, but I doubt you would lie about this. However, I also know Martin to be a good an honourable guy, so I'd suggest you post the email messages that disappeared, here, and let us decide if there is censorship
The messages that have disappeared have been forwarded to Sue. I am happy to forward them to you if requested, but I would ask the same favor I asked Sue: don't trust me and cross check with someone else that has received them. IMHO, the posts themselves (save for William's one, a "technical casualty" me thinks) are as relevant if not more than the fact they have "disappeared".
and indeed Martin is an asshole, or if you are just a troll who sends out accusations without proof to back them up. No offense..
None taken.
just being honest as I don't know the facts and I form opinions based on what I do know and feel when such facts are not provided.
This is an honorable position.
Any replies sent to me that do not refer to the full text will be ignored, as taking sentences out of context here is way too easy, and I'm too tired for yet another flame bait.
I believe I did not remove any. If I did, or have further questions, please say so.
Michel.