This afternoon's panel about IoT's lack of security got me thinking... On the issue of ISPs unable to act on insecure devices because they can't detect the devices until they're compromised and then only have the largest hammer (full account ban) to act... What about some kind of requirement or convention that upon boot and successful attachment to the network (and maybe once a month thereafter), any IoT device must _by default_ emit a UDP packet to an anycast address reserved for the purpose which identifies the device model and software build. The ISP can capture traffic to that anycast address, compare the data against a list of devices known to be defective and, if desired, respond with a fail message. If the IoT device receives the fail message, it must try to report the problem to its owner and remove its default route so that it can only communicate on the local lan. The user can override the fail and if desired configure the device not to emit the init messages at all. But by default the ISP is allowed to disable the device by responding to the init message. Would have to cryptographically sign the fail message and let the device query the signer's reputation or something like that to avoid the obvious security issue. Obvious privacy issues to consider. Anyway, throwing it out there as a potential discussion starting point. The presentation on bandwidth policers... Seems like we could use some form of ICMP message similar to destination unreachable that provides some kind of arbitrary string plus the initial part of the dropped packet. One of the potential strings would be an explicit notice to the sender that packets were dropped and the bandwidth available. Yes, we already have ECN, but ECN tells the receiver about congestion, not the sender. More to the point, ECN can only be flagged on packets that are passed, not the packets that are dropped, so the policer would have to be complicated enough to note on the next packet that the prior packet was dropped. Also, ECN only advises that you're close to the limit not any information about the policer's target limit. This thought is not fully baked. Throwing it out for conversation purposes. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/>