Michael, MDrc> I'm betting that we get the biggest bang for the buck out of education and MDrc> training. Part of it will come from teaching people network etiquette, MDrc> part from teaching them that spam is not a way to make money, and part of MDrc> it from teaching website owners how to provide effective advertising so "Accountable" Spammers are willing to work within the rules. In the absence of rules, they are aggressive. These are the folks of the DMA and the rest of the real, commercial marketing world. They have, so far, been entirely resistant to the many, vigorous efforts to pursue discussion-based education. For these folks, legislation-based "education" is more promising. Unfortunately, there is another set of folks that I call "Rogue Spammers". For various reasons, they cannot be held accountable. Some work form unaccountable environments. Some are simply crazy or nasty, so they don't care about making money. Spammers are like roaches. They are here to stay. They are aggressive. They adapt. We need to respond with a variety of mechanisms, preferably coordinated to maximize the aggregate effect. d/ -- Dave Crocker <mailto:dcrocker@brandenburg.com> Brandenburg InternetWorking <http://www.brandenburg.com> Sunnyvale, CA USA <tel:+1.408.246.8253>, <fax:+1.866.358.5301>