Okay, I'll bite... the mentioned file, http://www.nspllc.com/New%20Pages/Reliable%20IP%20Nodes.pdf seems to be fluff to me. There are many assumptions and statements about reliability, but the methodology of how the numbers were reached is not present. If one assumes that one has a router which fails very rarely, this would dramatically affect network design. However, this is an assumption, not a conclusion. The assumption of the paper is that the Alcatel box has ultra-low failure rates, while the Juniper and Cisco boxen have relatively high failure rates. Personally, before I let something like this influence my buying/design decisions, I'd want to see some serious raw data... ===== David Barak -fully RFC 1925 compliant- __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com