Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 21:33:24 -0500 From: Gordon Cook <cook@cookreport.com> To: deepak@ai.net, nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: Public Interest Networks (try UCLP)
[ ... ] In Europe Kees neggers with Surfnet6 is doing the same thing.
Well, some people over here in .NL might take offense ;) If you're interested, check out http://www.gigaport.nl/info/en/home.jsp Kees Neggers and Boudewijn Nederkoorn are the directors of SURFnet, the party which is basically the educational ISP, where educational should be viewed (nowadays) from K12 to Academic levels ;) SURFnet6 is the next version of the SURFnet network over here in Holland. It is developed through a partnership comprising Universities research institutes etc. That partnership is called "GigaPort", and the new effort is called "GigaPort NG" (Next Generation - we're not that imaginative over here ;D).
[ ... ] As I understand it Internet 2 and Dante/Geant in europe are primarily carrier dependent and therefore for the most part onlookers.
I believe that Dante/Geant are looking at the model which is at the core of SURFnet5 and SURFnet6. SURFnet5 (the current network) already incorporates a lot of dark-fiber. But it's only used at L3. SURFnet6 will basically make the ISP (SURFnet) also the carrier operating at L2 and semi-L1 (the cable is still rented via IRU).
[ ... ] This stuff is not yet well understood outside these research network circles. I believe that it is hugely important and I will be devoting most of my time in december and january to explaining to a broader audience what these folk are doing.
Well, apart from high-volume data-sets like LOFAR (check out http://www.lofar.org/), having 30+ 10G paths at your disposal as an ISP would make for interesting cases ;) Look at the DSL oversubscription model. Over here consumer DSL is usually 1/40. Business DSL can be had from 1/20 to 1/1. For an ISP that could allow for a much more flexible differentiation within it's backbone resources. Another much cited possibility was that in case of an overcrowded pipe, connections could be moved to another lightpath; alleviating the pressure of a bandwith-usurping event on the regular path it would travel... (DoS, severe Slashdotting etc.) Or implementing QoS on a L1/L2 level ;)
to the world of the best effort public internet it is utterly ALIEN. but my understanding is that it works. NOW. That it is a walled garden and that a big unknown is how long it will remain a walled garden.
GigaPort (which resulted in SURFnet5) had a bunch of R&D labs from commercial companies on board. I believe they're also on board for GigaPort NG. The usefulness of such a network, or better formulated the results from all the research on / with / about these types of networks is clear from a scientific point. From a "ISP World" point it is definitely something for the larger carriers. But for all ISP's of Network Operators (getting back to the 'NOG'-part of NANOG) it's definitely worth keeping tabs on. To quote Erik-Jan Bos of SURFnet: "The Paradigm Shift is upon us". Kind Regards, JP Velders (working at a GigaPort NG partner ;D)