that is because .co.za is still run like someone's personal website. I noted 2 _total_ outages of the network it sits behind just last week. The first was for over 30 minutes, can't remember the duration of the 2nd. With no offense to those running it, I have serious doubts about the technical feasability of the network it sits on, and the administration of it. we monitor and analyze changes in the za bgp table,and out of all the isp's in za, the most churn comes from AS6083. HUGE amounts, and all the time, routes are withdrawn and then re-advertised. They don't even have that many nets. Even if I look at the route churn of much larger providers in za, none of them come even close to the amount of churn that 6083 has, and their footprint isn't very big. Only people who come slighly close to that amount of churn are AS2686. Yes, there is a certain amount of churn which we can thank Telkom for (the incumbent Telco) but then I should expect an exponential amount of similar churn from other providers surely. Perhaps this is due to the fact that 1 of the directors (technical?) of Uniforum SA (www.uniforum.org.za) who are the proprietors of .co.za, is the owner of the sole isp who gives them connectivity. Regards --Rob