How come all of these discussions about ARIN are not on the ARIN mailing list(s) ? Could it be because some of the ARIN mailing lists are not available to the public ? Why is that...? Or...Is it because these are really IANA discussions and there is not a public IANA discussion list ? Will that be one of the first things that the new IANA Inc. does...??...(i.e. create an open discussion list)... === By the way...since there appears to be interest from NANOG members in these topics....here is my 2 cents... 1. People have been suggesting for years that /19 allocations should be easy to get and totally free of subjective decision making. I and others have suggested that TWO signed affidavits from upstream providers that will be providing the ISP with at least DS1 connections should be all that is required to obtain the allocation. If the ISP goes out of business, the registry gets to recover a larger block that can be easily recycled. Having many different sizes costs more in administrative costs and requires companies like ARIN to spend more money and therefore charge more. 2. It should be clear to everyone that the IPv4 address space is a mess and the IPv4 core transport network will eventually be replaced. There are a variety of strategies for how to do this. Which protocol is used is not the major issue. The Address Management Plan is more critical. The IPv4 plan is the result of years of strife, there is no IPv6 plan, and the IPv8 plan is oriented toward the ideas that some NANOG members have expressed here about NAT and RFC 1918 10.x.x.x networks behind proxy/firewalls. It is encouraging to see that NANOG members are moving in that direction. It is a shame they are being forced there because the IPv4 policies are so onerous and biased toward large telcos, ISPs and the regional registries like ARIN, RIPE and APNIC who are taxing everyone with millions of dollars in fees for a very minimal service. - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM