I can't speak directly for them, as I'm not an official company spokesperson, but this conversation has got my dander up enough that I can't keep my big mouth shut. I know of at least one 500 pound gorilla (with zillions of retail customers, and their share of 500 pound gorillas as customers (and everything in between)) that has a working and effective abuse@ address, one that can and does aggregate and pass on abuse complaints, and that can and does suspend service over failure to fix. On occasion, I understand even significant customers have been not just suspended but terminated over failure to follow the ToS/AUP. The company in question accepts abuse complaints in ARF, MARF, X-ARF and IODEF format, among others, and (I cannot emphasize this enough) does act on them. Anyone who suggests roundfiling abuse@ complaints is (IMNSHO) actively working to make the problem worse, not better. Anyone who thinks that all networks do roundfile abuse@ complaints would seem to be making an over-generalization. Note, once again, that these are my opinions, and not my employers', so much so that I can't even tell you directly who my employer is. Not that it's hard to find out, but I'm so very much not speaking in an official capacity here. -- Paul