I think the best analogy I would use in defense is something like the pre-paid cellular phones that are sold. That is about the only anonymous communications service I can think of off the top of my head. Problem is that most people are not licensed carriers and may not be able to hide behind that protection. I can see an argument both ways with the feds saying that you are running a service for the express service of concealing the identity of a person allowing them to avoid law enforcement (among other uses). On the other hand, the makers of guns do not get charged with murder even though their tool enabled a criminal. Could go either way but the problem is that in any case it will be expensive to defend so win or lose, you lose. I guess you can't run a Tor exit unless you have a legal defense fund set up. I understand the legit uses of Tor but wonder what the actual percentage of good vs. evil use really is. Steven Naslund -----Original Message----- From: Barry Shein [mailto:bzs@world.std.com] Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 10:17 AM To: NANOG list Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if you can. Back in the early days of the public internet we didn't require any id to create an account, just that you found a way to pay us. We had anonymous accts some of whom dropped by personally to pay their bill, some said hello but I usually didn't know their names and that's how they wanted it, I'd answer "hello <ACCOUNT>", whatever their login was if I recognized them. Some mailed in something, a mail order, even currency tho that was rare but it did happen, or had someone else drop by to pay in cash (that is, no idea if they were local.) LEO occasionally served a warrant for information, usually child porn biz (more than just accessing child porn, selling it) tho I don't remember any anonymous accts being involved. I never expected to be held accountable for anyone's behavior unless I was knowingly involved somehow (just the usual caveat.) LEO never showed any particular interest in the fact that we were ok with anonymous accounts. If I was made aware of illegal activities we'd shut them off, didn't really happen much, maybe some credible "hacking" complaint on occasion. It's funny, it's all illusion like show business. It's not hard to set up anonymous service, crap, just drop in at any wi-fi hotspot, many just ask you to click that you accept their T&Cs and you're on. Would they raid them, I was just using one at a major hospital this week that was just like that, if someone used that for child porn etc? But I guess stick your nose out and say you're specifically offering anon accts and watch out I guess. -- -Barry Shein The World | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD | Dial-Up: US, PR, Canada Software Tool & Die | Public Access Internet | SINCE 1989 *oo*