> * _Stealing_ is when B uses A's resources without permission or > agreement. Okay, for the sake of perpetuating an argument which should be at least a little more interesting to you, Randy, than you let on, let's try reversing those labels... A = Little ISP B = Sprint or MCI C = Other transit provider B collects money from B's customers in exchange for giving them access to resources on the Internet. Let's say that A, which uses C for transit, sells a connection to, for instance, a library, with the assumption that they're providing a connection which library patrons will use to browse resources on the Internet. Instead, the library, A's customer, puts up their card catalog and a popular reference web site. B's customers all want to get to A and download big honking gifs. The "legitimate" path for this would be through C, to whom A has to pay money, but B does not. So let's look at the proposed definition of "stealing" again: > * _Stealing_ is when B uses A's resources without permission or > agreement. In this case, the resource is transit purchased by A from C, for the use of A's customers. In this case, B is "stealing" A's transit resource for the use of B's customers, without compensating A. C is a hapless bystander who now has to carry a lot of unneccessary traffic which could be flowing directly between A and B. Please explain to me how this creates a better, faster, cheaper, more reliable Internet. -Bill ________________________________________________________________________________ bill woodcock woody@zocalo.net woody@applelink.apple.com user@host.domain.com