At 14:04 17/05/99 -0700, Steve Riley (MCS) wrote: You are merely showing your geocentricism by saying that bandwidth is essentially free. That may be true in the USA but not in other countries and especially not trans-Pacific or trans-Atlantic. T3 from NY-Chicago goes for around $20K/month. T3 from London to NY goes for around $100K/month. T3 from Tel-Aviv to NY goes for around $300K/month. T3 Tokyo-LA goes for $400K/month (all prices for fiber on a one year contract). I would agree that at $20K/month you could build possible business models that turn the cost of the b/w to be part of the costs you eat and in turn provide b/w free of charge to your users. But at $300-$400K/month it ain't gonna work ($20K/month gets one an almost E1 from Europe to the USA - whereas in the USA it gets you a T3). Go to www.band-x.com to see what current circuits cost. Once int'l bandwidth costs drop to the rates of USA national rates, then I would be inclined to agree with you and Vadim that QoS is not needed. Clearly today, IP QoS is not needed at the campus level. -Hank
Nice to see that I'm not the only one believing in the foolishness of QoS hype. Bandwidth is essentially free, and will always be cheaper than QoS. And since in the end nearly all decisions are based on economics, it should be apparent which is the more logical decision.
Allow me to point you to an interesting paper called "Rise of the Stupid Network." Many of you here may have already seen this. It was written back in 1997 by David Isenberg, then a reasearcher at AT&T Labs (Isenberg is now an independent consultant). His paper profoundly changed my views on QoS and made me realize that networks perform best when we limit how smart they get and ensure that networks focus on transport only. I urge everyone to read it.
Paper: http://www.rageboy.com/stupidnet.html Isenberg's site: http://www.isen.com/
_________________________________________________________ Steve Riley Microsoft Telecommunications Practice in Denver, Colorado email: mailto:steriley@microsoft.com call: +1 303 521-4129 (cellular) page: +1 888 440-6249 or mailto:4406249@skytel.com Applying computer technology is simply finding the right wrench to pound in the correct screw.
-----Original Message----- From: Vadim Antonov [mailto:avg@kotovnik.com] Sent: Monday, May 17, 1999 12:28 PM To: nanog@merit.edu; pete@kruckenberg.com Subject: Re: Is anyone actually USING IP QoS?
Yep. Altough not _all_ QoS schemes are broken-as-designed. The most trivial per-packet priority combined with ingress priority mix shaping works. Ths idea of end-to-end whatever reservations or guarantees is usually propounded by people who either neglected their CS courses or those who are trying to sell it.
Yep. The biggest QoS secret is that nobody actually needs it. Bandwidth is cheap and is growing cheaper. The manpower needed to deploy and maintain QoS is getting more and more expensive.
--vadim