Jim,

While I don't envy those who put in long hours to mitigate DDoSes at the 11th hour, the security industry as a whole, DDoS mitigation included, doesn't have a perfectly clean track record. Public court records offer plenty of evidence, and convictions from foul play while trying to win bids.

An individual I worked with previously personally handled a long, drawn out DDoS event that was ultimately perpetrated by a security contractor bidding for a job (I didn't work it personally, but it was a frequent topic of discussion while it was ongoing). Fortunately, after subsequent months of law enforcement investigation, the contractor was brought up on charges. 

It's definitely not "crap" , it's a fact, albeit not necessarily common.

-Matt

On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 10:38 AM jim deleskie <deleskie@gmail.com> wrote:
While I have no design to engage in over email argument over how much latency people can actually tolerate, I will simply state that most people have a very poor understanding of it and how much additional latency is really introduced by DDoS mitigation.

As for implying that DDoS mitigation companies are complicit or involved in attacks, while not the first time i heard that crap it's pretty offensive to those that work long hours for years dealing with the garbage.  If you honestly believe anyone your dealing with is involved with launching attacks you clearly have not done your research into potential partners.



On Sat., May 22, 2021, 11:20 a.m. Jean St-Laurent via NANOG, <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:

Some industries can’t afford that extra delay by DDoS mitigation vendors.

 

The video game industry is one of them and there might be others that can’t tolerate these extra ms. Telemedicine, video-conference, fintech, etc.

 

As a side note, my former employer in video game was bidding for these vendors offering DDoS protection. While bidding, we were hit with abnormal patterns. As soon as we chose one vendors those very tricky DDoS patterns stopped.

I am not saying they are working on both side, but still the coincidence was interesting. In the end, we never used them because they were not able to perfectly block the threat without impacting all the others projects.

 

I think these mitigators are nice to have as a very last resort. I believe what is more important for Network Operators is: to be aware of this, to be able to detect it, mitigate it and/or minimize the impact. It’s like magic, where did that rabbit go?

 

The art of war taught me everything there is to know about DDoS attacks even if it was written some 2500 years ago.

 

I suspect that the attack that impacted Baldur’s assets was a very easy DDoS to detect and block, but can’t confirm.

 

@Baldur: do you care to share some metrics?

 

Jean

 

From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+jean=ddostest.me@nanog.org> On Behalf Of Jean St-Laurent via NANOG
Sent: May 21, 2021 10:52 AM
To: 'Lady Benjamin Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE' <lb@6by7.net>; 'Baldur Norddahl' <baldur.norddahl@gmail.com>
Cc: 'NANOG Operators' Group' <nanog@nanog.org>
Subject: RE: DDoS attack with blackmail

 

I also recommend book Art of War from Sun Tzu.

 

All the answers to your questions are in that book.

 

Jean

 

From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+jean=ddostest.me@nanog.org> On Behalf Of Lady Benjamin Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE
Sent: May 20, 2021 7:18 PM
To: Baldur Norddahl <baldur.norddahl@gmail.com>
Cc: NANOG Operators' Group <nanog@nanog.org>
Subject: Re: DDoS attack with blackmail

 

20 years ago I wrote an automatic teardrop attack.  If your IP spammed us 5 times, then a script would run, knocking the remote host off the internet entirely.

 

Later I modified it to launch 1000 teardrop attacks/second…

 

Today,  contact the FBI.

 

And get a mitigation service above your borders if you can.

 

 

—L.B.

 

Ms. Lady Benjamin PD Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE

6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC 

CEO 

"The only fully end-to-end encrypted global telecommunications company in the world.”

FCC License KJ6FJJ


 

On May 20, 2021, at 12:26 PM, Baldur Norddahl <baldur.norddahl@gmail.com> wrote:

 

Hello

 

We got attacked by a group that calls themselves "Fancy Lazarus". They want payment in BC to not attack us again. The attack was a volume attack to our DNS and URL fetch from our webserver.

 

I am interested in any experience in fighting back against these guys.

 

Thanks,

 

Baldur

 

 



--
Matt Erculiani
ERCUL-ARIN